WILL UNWOUND #454: “Light from Heat”
May 23, 2011Things on the Unwound comment board became, well, a bit unwound with last Sunday’s post. Not that there is anything wrong with that. In fact I think it is a very good thing for the future of this blog.
One Unwinder mentioned that he thought that there was more heat than light in the post and in the comments. I also don’t think there is anything wrong with that either. Heat indicates passion, and passion indicates a tenacious commitment to a point of view. It’s a measure of the depth of feeling on a subject. My sense is that heat sometimes communicates more than light and that it is good to have conversations from time to time that provide more heat than light. Sometimes warmth is more important than illumination. Sometimes heat provides all the illumination you need.
To those of you with misplaced priorities who chose to devote your Sunday to other pursuits than monitoring the comment board on Will Unwound, I believe what sparked the furor was the surprise I expressed that atheism, a belief system in a materialistic, naturalistic, and inevitable creative process in which the universe came into being and continues to evolve, creates real opportunities for existential joy , a transcendent meaning, and a higher purpose. Until Sunday, I will admit, that I felt that the belief in a godless, indifferent universe would inevitably lead one into a Sartrean sense of being and nothingness. I quite frankly equated atheism with philosophical nihilism. This clearly shows I took way too many philosophy courses in college and haven’t spent enough time talking about the meaning of life with atheists.
So…I learned something Sunday, and I am glad that I did because I believe that a search for joy, meaning, and purpose ironically enough, is precisely what distinguishes humanity and makes us unique. What is this restless quest that we humans have to find a higher meaning in our lives than just staying alive? For me, the source of this quest comes from our spiritual dimension, which is commonly referred to as the soul. Many of you may not believe in a soul and in our age of scientific materialism that’s actually a very normative point of view especially in higher education. I respect your belief. But I also respect and appreciate your willingness to share in your quest for life’s meaning, because for me that is very affirming of my own perspective of the universe.
If you haven’t noticed, I am intrigued with cosmic belief systems…the entire continuum from atheism through agnosticism through pantheism through spiritualism through “new age” and all the way through institutional orthodoxy. In fact, if I could start college all over I would probably major in world religions. Houston Smith and Karen Armstrong are two of my favorite authors.
The problem with pursuing this subject area, however, is that it often, as the commenter suggested, creates more heat than light. We shall see from Sunday to Sunday how things shake out. We are members of a profession whose core value is intellectual freedom. If any group of people should be able to discuss any subject freely, openly and even aggressively, it should be library people.
My final note is that I think that librarians are in the people business, more so now that technology has become so dominant in our working lives, and so I believe people crave the human touch. This means we need to understand a very wide diversity of people and I truly believe that understanding one’s cosmic belief system is integral to understanding the person. I’m a huge believer in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.
Peace and please, Boris, a cup of chai tea.
Hi Will,
After working my way for years through various indentifiers I have come to realize that what describes me best is “Humanist”. For better or worse, all that mankind (meaning men & women) has done–it’s all on us. No supernatural events or beings had a hand and when you die your unique conciousness is gone from the world.
I don’t think that is incompatible with living a moral life–quite the opposite. If each human life is unique, existing only in that one individual, then every unnecessary death is a tragedy. If this one life is all you get, then you must make the most of it and don’t leave anything you truly want to do undone.
I love nature, work in a socially responsible job (I’m a librarian after all!), and give to charity. I attend the Unitarian Church nearly every Sunday and volunteer there.
That said, I understand the comfort in believing that God is looking out for you and that your life is part of a larger plan can bring and would never try to talk anyone out of the beliefs that sustain them.
Peace.
Lee, thanks for the well expressed and sensitive comment. I appreciate it. My yearning (I guess that is the best way to put it) is that if man does have a spiritual dimension that transcends the here and now, isn’t it important to explore that dimension as well as the human side? Great thinkers and great human beings have told us that that dimension exists. My own sense is that we get in touch with that spiritual side by immersing ourselves in the lives of those who need our help the most. I still say the best place to explore our spirituality is in a soup kitchen. Not sure that you and I are that far apart.
Lol – it’s not the flames you can see that you should cook your steak with – they just sear it and seal in the juices. It is the infra-red heat that cooks it just right when you move it off the open flames.
Now, who wants theirs just so? Don’t bother Boris he likes Tartar.
John, actually I like my steaks medium rare.
Me, too, but you better watch out. If you’re in the Midwest (say, St. Paul, best filet mignon I ever had, melted in mouth, sigh!), order medium. Also, any steak house that cooks at extreme heat (2,000 degrees like Ruth Chris steak house) tends to use the Midwest definition instead of the West Coast version.
I did not read or follow Sunday’s post & comments until this post & while this is a bit off topic, forgive me (would forgiveness be heat or light?)
I live approximately 30 miles from Joplin, MO, & followed the track of the storm in real time on one of the local television stations. The scenes of devastation defy comprehension. I had surgery at St. John’s hospital, now an empty shell. My mother was a patient there on various occasions, so I knew the place better than I wanted. The convenience store where I gassed up my car numerous times is flattened. Stores I’ve shopped in are gone.
Joplin is not my home & no one close to me lives there but I’m shaken so I have no idea what those who have lost all their belongings are feeling right now. But when the shocked, dazed, and hurting survivors are asked that inevitable, inane question, “how do you feel right now?” all have expressed that possessions mean nothing as long as they & their loved ones came out alive. And many have expressed their belief that they are survived by the grace of God (this is the Bible belt, after all).
The phrase is “there are no atheists in foxholes” but I think it can also be used in reference to an EF 4 or 5 tornado. I suspect there are many who have a new respect for nature but will continue their belief in God. Perhaps some who lost everything, including family, will lose that faith & turn towards atheism; I’m not sure I’d be able to accept answers for what happened from either spectrum.
I’ve always thought I’m the poster child for the whole “ye of little faith” bit but usually my faith in God is a little stronger than my faith in mankind, though it’s heartwarming to see the outpouring of help flooding Joplin right now.
By the way, the public library was spared any damage though I understand some staff members lost houses & one suffered a broken arm.
Whatever your belief (or unbelief) system is, I think the people of Joplin can use any & all thoughts & prayers.
CarolAnn…Thanks for the update on the Joplin tragedy. Your words certainly resonate deeply with me. Adversity has a way of putting the ultimate questions regarding life’s meaning into sharp focus. Personally, I have never quite understood the “no atheists in a foxhole” aphorism. Of all our earthly activities war is the most nihilistic. I think what you are sensing in Joplin is the triumph of the human spirit. There is nothing like a natural disaster to bring out a spirit of love and support for the victims. To me this is our transcendent nature in its sharpest focus. I suppose we could privately draw our own conclusions. Your description of the conditions in Joplin exceed even those I read in the paper. Thanks again.
Wow, absolutely positive vibes your way for everyone in your local communities. Best wishes and good luck with the recovery.
An update from the director of the Joplin Public Library:
“JPL in a kind of nutshell:
Again, the library received NO DAMAGE. We are enough north of the storm area that our building is fine.
Of our staff, 8 completely lost homes. Two others sustained significant damage. Two employees sustained minor injuries — one girl a broken arm — one guy with thousands of abrasions on his back sustained when the place in which he took shelter collapsed.
The library is open normal hours today. We still have a skeleton crew, with some just not able to find clear routes to get to the library — well, actually they could head west into Kansas and come around from the north, or east far enough to circle around and come in from the north….. but other staff has had no difficulties getting in.
Yesterday library usage was virtually non-existent, even for the computer lab. We’ve tried to get word out through the media and through every FB relief page we could find that we are open for cell phone/computer charging and have good internet connection. Today people are beginning to come in for computer use. We have set up our labtop lab for overflow from the regular lab.
As far as library help, if the demand for computer access continues to grow, we might need some help preparing computers we have in stock to get them online. We have about 50 computers still in boxes that have arrived to replace older computers, but they are not formatted etc etc etc. If anyone is capable of this type activity and willing to, I can forward names to my IT person. She IS particular and volunteers would have to follow her directions on how she wants them set up……
Also, if library personnel from across the state were so inclined, if any financial support is sent to me in care of JPL, I will see that affected staff received this aid. 5 of the 8 who lost their homes are only employed part-time, including a single mom (with a now-broken arm and no medical ins) with kids, already struggling before this hit.
I have not personally seen the devastation except through pictures to which you all have access online. I live 40 miles north and have not a purpose to drive through the area. Despite my curiosity, I have stayed out of the way of workers. Those to whom I have spoken who HAVE seen it, say the pictures absolutely do NOT do justice to the situation. I can only fathom. The library is location on Main St. in the center of town. There are so many emergency vehicles running with lights and sirens blaring up and down Main St., it is incredible.
On another personal note, my 24 yr old daughter was working in ER at the remaining hospital during the tornado. She is still in shock from it. She has *almost* completed her radiology tech training and Freeman had hired her for PRN work. What she experienced is very much akin to wartime casualties. She has not worked in the medical field enough to have developed the thick skin needed, so it was really hard for her. I only heard her describe a couple cases, and just thinking about those with having my “baby” have to deal with them, hurts a mother’s heart. I know she barely scratched the surface with those incidents, since Freeman was designated as a place for only life-threatening cases…….
Your prayers for the City and my daughter are appreciated. I may post updates from time to time on our FB page or through the MPLD list.”
For those who do the Facebook thing, JPL’s can be found at http://www.facebook.com/joplinpubliclibrary
“usually my faith in God is a little stronger than my faith in mankind” – love this quote! I guess that’s why I am not an atheist – I can’t bear to believe that humans are the penultimate creation.
Blessings, as they say in the Bible belt.
ack, of course I meant that I can’t bear to believe that humans are the ultimate creation, although we may be the PENultimate.
Hey Boris, another chai tea for this corner; thanks, here’s a $20 tip.
I agree that our field, that library field in the western world at any rate, is one that promotes intellectual freedom as a necessary cornerstone.
And I also agree that some topics like religion and politics tend to generate more heat than intellectual light; and yes, I’m going to use the word intellectual which to me simply means that someone is using their brain to research a subject and think critically about it — no disrespect is intended by its usage however, I happen to like the word as it has positive connotations for me.
In relation, I also think that civil discourse is crucial in a democracy and I would think, and hope, that we in the library world which prides itself on its founding principle and cornerstone of intellectual freedom for all – would be able to discuss any subject in a civil manner but on Sunday it did seem that some people went more for the heat side of the equation and embraced the emotional as compared to a more critical discussion of why they believe what they believe.
I also would like to say that I’ve read comments on this board too that I have disagreed with; but, I figure people are entitled to their own opinions and if I am free to voice mine than that seems fair. And additionally, I don’t ever recall anyone posting something on this blog and saying that what they thought on that subject was the holy grail of thought on a subject so I’m not quite certain why some people were so steamed yesterday.
But of course as I’ve mentioned previously I was raised Episcopalian but I’m not religious as an adult. I believe my religious world view would be described as agnostic as I can’t confirm or deny religious events that occurred a thousand or more years ago but I am certainly skeptical of religious doctrine based on ancient events that cannot be quantified. However, I have no difficulty with anyone else saying they are super religious, regardless of their particular faith or world view, and putting forth their views for discussion as long as they allow me that same courtesy.
And I’m taking my chai off to the reading room now to work on a some library related school work.
Good night all!
Linda, I agree. The commenters on this blog have been consistently civil. 99% of the disagreements are on principles and not personalities. You have uniformily set that tone and I really appreciate your level of participation.
I’m intrigued about your point re. ancient religious documents. Mind if I blog about that sometime? What documents pass the credibility test and why? It’s an interesting question especially for librarians.
I don’t mind in the least if you blog on the subject –feel free.
In relation, one of the facets of religion that I find most intriguing is studying the historical evidence, what there is of it, and contrasting that to stories that one really has to either accept or not based upon their own personal faith as their isn’t sufficient physical, historical or archeological evidence to support said stories. Whatever one’s spiritual views the historical context and how it reflects society both of the era under discussion and our modern age is fascinating. But then of course, I was a history major…
And as for what documents and/or evidence that passes the test; I’d have to be less tired and do some research to answer that question so I’ll try and remember to come back to it another day.
Thanks, Linda.
Friends. Please everybody read this sad story of an L.A. school librarian. Perhaps give her some support–maybe welcome her to our club:
“Message Received,” by Nora Murphy, The Library Is Not a Fruit, 21 May 2011.
Dan, thanks for bringing this to our attention. It is really a gut wrenching story.
Wow, that is horrible. It is an unfair world to say the very least.
Positive vibes her way and best wishes for a great new chapter in her life – you have to try and see the glass as being half full when something like that happens to you and if the school administrators are that, how shall I tactfully put it?, unreasonably negative – she’ll be better off going else where to work but she’s right it is the students and teachers at her school that will truly lose out.
People’s beliefs or understandings of themselves and their relation to the universe they live are very important to them. For many people, they are foundational. So a discussion involving differing beliefs or understandings may easily be taken as threatening, and when that happens, getting heat rather than light has to be expected.
For one interesting take on this, see this link:
http://www.blogster.com/whiskeytango/hell-explained-chemistry
Thank you for this. Boris – thisa man’s drinks are on me.
Hell explained and a rapture too, if not The Rapture–one can hardly do better than that.
Wayne, I am so glad you are back. Wonderful link!
Looking forward to your future!post on religious documents ancient and otherwise, Will. I have Opinions on that subject. :B
I think it is a most fascinating area. Karen Armstrong has done some remarkable scholarship in doing a comparative study of the early documents of world religions.
I would probably call myself an agnostic. I suspect/hope that there is some higher power, although I haven’t a clue what it may be. But I am deeply suspicious of organized religion. I guess my beliefs are best summed up by the quotation “pray like everything depends on God, work like everything depends on you.”
Amy, thanks. I really love that quote.
On a note related more to yesterdays’ conversation Barnes & Noble has unveiled its new “Simple Touch Reader” nook; which will be for sale in June and has a 6’ touch screen.
Here’s the link to the B&N description page should anyone wish to check out the details:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/index.asp?PID=35699
Linda…check this link out: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/05/20/general-specialized-consumer-services-us-barnes-amp-noble-buyout_8477391.html
Very interesting. I will be interested too to see how well the new touch screen nook does — I think they should have started out with a model like this instead of having a color display on the bottom of the device.
A touch screen Nook would be great. I keep trying to use my current one as a touch screen. But I object to their marketing – “a Nook for your Grandmother”. Hmmph, this grandmother is tech savvy, thank you.
Time will tell, I suppose, what Sunday’s conversation will mean for the future of WU. Let me hasten to add that I don’t think at all that that future is in doubt; only that if the individuals who said they were leaving for good have really done so, I’ll miss them.
I’ve said before that I think part of the problem with Western religion–Abraham’s Big Three, if you will–is a simplistic understanding of faith and belief, and of how they intersect with spiritual life.
Here, it seems to me, based to be sure on imperfect understanding, is where Buddhism is a smidge ahead of us. I don’t see in what I’ve read and heard about Buddhist spiritual life–or Shinto or Taoism for that matter–that same quality of insistence about believing or disbelieving some certain credo that seems to mark so much religious discourse among us. (I might speak similarly of Hinduism, if only because among such a welter of gods and myths it’s surely difficult to be doctrinaire with a straight face.)
In the West I can think offhand of a few more or less mainstream, more or less widely followed spiritual movements–I’m using that phrase a bit loosely–that have departed from that attachment to dogma. Unitarian Universalism is one. (I use the somewhat awkward yoked term in deference to the denomination’s own name, the Unitarian Universalist Association, arising from the institutional merger of the Universalists and Unitarians in 1961.) The UUA has its origin in Christian groups who united around particular disagreements with mainstream Christian doctrine, but has evolved into an officially creedless church. That can be difficult for the Western religious mind to wrap itself around: you are invited to be part of a religious community, but you are not enjoined to any belief whatever, including a belief in any sort of God. How that works is, perhaps, a living mystery the equal of other mysteries of faith.
There are one or two other groups within Christianity that have either embraced or approached this stance. One is the Christian Community (Christengemeinschaft), founded with the advice and guidance of Rudolf Steiner almost ninety years ago, which is almost more paradoxical than Unitarianism: an expressly Christian and highly liturgical church that–by its own explicit statements–imposes no creed on its members and leaves the individual completely free, in thought as otherwise. “Highly liturgical” might be a key here, as the emphasis is on the experience of, rather than thinking and talking about, spiritual reality.
Then there are the various Twelve Step programs and groups that began with Alcoholics Anonymous in the thirties. I have read that when Bill W. and Dr. Bob first conceived of AA, the language of the steps was much more Christian, but as they thought about it and discussed it they realized that that would have to change if their idea were going to be of help to all. There is still some controversy as to whether the “higher power” is another kind of God talk. But on the other hand there are such groups as AAAA (Alcoholics Anonymous for Atheists and Agnostics) who meet, work the Twelve Steps with no reference to anything religious, and save their lives.
The mainstreaming of meditation–there’s another example. When Indian teachers of meditation started to make the news in the sixties–of course they had been around long before that–the whole thing seemed exotic and, to some, heretical and subversive. No doubt it still seems so to some. But on the whole, all kinds of people meditate–followers of Eastern religions, evangelical Protestants, Catholics, Jews, atheists, and I’d bet a fair number of Muslims. The two or three teachers of meditation with whom I’ve spent any time have all said it’s not about any particular belief–it is about practice and state of mind.
That these movements, practices, what you will, have taken root and flourished in the modern West gives me some hope that we’re starting, some of us at least, maybe even enough of us, to learn that whatever transcendence–or whatever immanence–there may be is beyond being bound within the words of a single creed or a single book.
Or as I’ve sometimes put it, it’s poetry, music, and myth, put together with the everydayness of how we conduct our lives; it’s not expository prose.
I’ll just add that another thing I find encouraging–and there’s not much in the public events of modern life that I find encouraging, but this is big, I think–is the way the “great souls” of our time seem to understand each other across the boundaries of their religious and spiritual traditions. The Dalai Lama, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Thích Nhá̂t Hạnh–if they, for example, meet in a room the atmosphere is of mutual respect, deep spiritual power, love, and a lot of humor; divisions are insignificant. Maybe they are the closer to each other for having gone further up the mountain.
———-
Scrivit hospes noster: “Until Sunday, I will admit, that I felt that the belief in a godless, indifferent universe would inevitably lead one into a Sartrean sense of being and nothingness.”
Sartre may not have had so bad a life; though, by his own choice, it was not an easy one. Here’s an excerpt of an interview at seventy–which is to say, about five years before he died:
“This is my situation at the moment. Apart from that, I am in fine shape. I sleep extremely well. My mind is probably just as sharp as it was ten years ago—no more sharp, but no less—and my sensibility has remained the same. Most of the time my memory is good, except for names, which I recall only with great effort and which sometimes escape me. I can use objects when I know where they are in advance. In the street, I can get along by myself without too much difficulty.”
“Even so, not being able to write any more must be a considerable blow. You speak about it with serenity….”
“In one sense, it robs me of all reason for existing; I was, and I am no longer, if you wish. I should feel very defeated, but for some unknown reason I feel quite good: I am never sad, nor do I have any moments of melancholy in thinking of what I have lost.”
“No feelings of rebellion?”
“Who, or what, should I be rebelling against? Don’t take this for stoicism—although, as you know, I have always had sympathy for the Stoics. No, it’s just that things are the way they are and there’s nothing I can do about it, so there’s no reason for me to be upset. I’ve had some trying times …
“Now, all I can do is make the best of what I am, become accustomed to it, evaluate the possibilities and take advantage of them. It is the loss of vision, of course, which is most annoying, and according to the doctors I’ve consulted it is irremediable. This is bothersome, because I feel moved by enough things to want to write, not all the time, but now and then.”
He was an epitome of the public intellectual, who was moved by what he experienced and witnessed during World War II to the conviction that neither life nor ideas were worth much absent engagement with the world. He had conscience, friends, pleasures, sorrows, lovers. His way of thinking was quite different from mine, but neither his exterior nor his interior life was by any means bleak or sterile, or so it seems to me.
RA…Sartre’s books then belie the man’s life. They are not very hopeful.
Thanks, R.A., for “our host has written” in Latin. (“Scrivit” is perfect, not imperfect, correct?) Frs. Gallagher, Brill, and Naucke, S.J., would be pleased that I was still able to read it right off.
And thanks for the quotes from Sartre. Not getting upset over things beyond your control is sound advice for anyone, believer and nonbeliever alike.
You may enjoy this, Master Stewart!
And I still haven’t forgotten that you hit the ball out of the park when it came to devising rhymes for “angst”!
*sighs happily at the memory of the rhymes for “angst”*
Joe and R.A., when are you starting blogs? I love reading your comments, but I crave additional words. Or MOAR WORDS, as Mr. Jessa might say.
Also, Joe, thank you for sharing of your Flickr stream. It is a thing of wonder; I always leave it feeling edified in intellect and being-in-the-world-ness. (Why, yes, my parents spent tens of thousands of dollars on my degree in Rhetoric. Why do you ask?)
Thank you, sir! (a blush) It is indeed perfect. I had to look it up.
I did enjoy the link, and noted the very useful epigram someone added in the comment: Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. (Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound).
“Altum” could also be “elevated,” and I think I like that translation better.
Christianity has never taught that creeds and formularies – or even sacraments – somehow define or bind God. Rather, Christianity has taught that believers are bound by the understanding of God’s nature as revealed in Scripture and the sacraments. This limited understanding of God – and the limit is imposed on us, not God – actually preserves the divine mystery.
If God were simply an object of investigation, like a physical object or a deductive systems such as mathematics, we could never have a personal relationship with Him – he would be “it” not a “thou”. Furthermore, reducing God to an object of cognition removes the moral initiative and depths of interior life that are essential to personhood. So, to the extent that the creeds limit our understanding of God’s nature to the story of a God who, on his own initiative, seeks out man in order to engage him in personal, accountable, moral, challenging relationship, they prevent us from formulating a God for ourselves that satisfies our bare intellects or our own selfish preferences.
In short the creeds exist in order to orient us toward God by placing restrictions on our all too human weaknesses, not by capturing a wild God and putting him on display in church.
PS Why wouldn’t it be scripsit? Scribo scribere scripsi scriptum.
Billy, it’s been an insanely busy week (with no relief in sight) in which I haven’t had time to read, let alone post; but still I’ve been remiss in not thanking you for what may well be the most thoughtful defense of orthodoxy (small o) that I’ve read.
As for scrivit versus scripsit–I confess with embarrassment that I can’t say. I am a late-blooming student of Latin, “blooming” being a Rabelaisian exaggeration, and on top of that have had a fool for a teacher.
Thanks, but I have to give credit Dorothy Sayers — see the “The Dogma is the Drama” and “Creed or Chaos” — all the credit.
Waitwaitwait. You’re trying to tell me that there’s something out there that’s *more* paradoxical than UUism? As a UU who sang in the choir for years and rarely misses church on Sundays, I must demand Evidence, sir. Evidence!
Also, I miss you. *hugs*