WILL UNWOUND #431: “Saturday Book Talk – Historical Fiction”
April 30, 2011Yesterday I talked a bit about my sense of solidarity with the Tories or Loyalists during the American Revolutionary War. I really haven’t run into too many British fellow travelers in this country. The American Revolution is the cornerstone of our sacred history, and the Declaration of Independence is our most quoted sacred scripture. Even Ho Chi Minh was fond of using snippets from the Declaration in his speeches and pronouncements.
The reality is that American patriotism is a kind of religion. We like to think of the United States as that shining city on the hill that Jesus talked about in the Sermon on the Mount . In Matthew 5:14, he tells his listeners, “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” Among those who have made reference to this phrase are such disparate leaders as John Winthrop of Puritan fame, John Kennedy, and Ronald Reagan.
Every time I watch a Presidential inauguration I am struck by the fact that what I am witnessing is a religious ceremony with prayers, Gospel readings, hymns, invocations, and the whole swearing in ceremony with the left hand on the Bible and the right hand raised in the air. We are one nation under God.
Given the divine nature and origin of our country, therefore, it is hard for anyone who grows up in this country to take sides with the Redcoats. We were virtuous. They were tyrannical. Pretty simple equation.
But what always struck me about the American Revolution was the curious statistic that I think I first learned in fourth grade: the famous “a third, a third, a third” statistic. That statistic held from fourth grade through Doctor Marshall Smelser’s class on the American Revolution in my senior year of college. A third of the colonists were rebels; a third were loyalists; and a third were neutral. This always bothered me. If the revolutionary cause was so noble and so virtuous, why did it only attract a third of the colonists?
This also bothered a very great novelist named Kenneth Roberts who wrote a book entitled Oliver Wiswell. It’s all about how unjustly the loyalists were treated by the people with whom they had once been friends, colleagues, and fellow worshippers. This book presents a view of the American Revolution that you will never, ever get in an American classroom. That’s because history is typically written from the side of the victors. This book gives the perspective of the losers…the loyalist Americans, and it’s not a pretty picture. Suffice it to say, that our national origins are not as sacred as we pretend them to be.
A great work of historical fiction motivates you to learn more about history, and that is precisely what Kenneth Roberts did for me the reader. After reading Oliver Wiswell I did extensive research into the post war experiences of the loyalists and tories. I can’t think of another historical fiction title that has had that impact on me.
Question of the Day: What is your favorite work of historical fiction?
I don’t think I have actually ever read any historical fiction. I love certain parts of history and read history books or articles, but never fictionalized accounts.
However, a history professor on campus has a wonderful project. The students have to choose a time period and a person from history. The person cannot be famous. Ordinary people: a prostitute in the 1600s, a working class woman in the 1800s, or a pamphlet maker in revolutionary France. Then they have to do research on what those people have to do and what their lives were like. Then, they have to write a short story about a day in their lives. I’ve read them. They are riveting.
If I took the class, I would write as a young man on the SS Louis (?) as it returned to Europe after being denied entry into the US or a teenage boy in Dachau when the American soldiers came. I’ve seen film of these boys. It is beautiful.
As for history, I’ve always thought the victors invented it to wrap themselves in their own stories and when someone questions it or tries to find the little or disenfranchised people’s place in it…it upsets the victors self-image.
I think the most profound novel I have read that is set in a historical period (although recent, so some might not class it as historical fiction) is Willa Cather’s “My Antonia.” It brings the gritty reality of the settling of the Great Plains to life in a way that deeply moves me for the struggles, hardships, and sacrifices of those who came to this country hoping to give their descendents hope for a better life than they would otherwise have known.
However, for historical fiction that is just plain fun, my favorite is Ivanhoe. I go back to it now and then because it is a wonderful, although historically flawed, story.
Will, I’ve often thought I would have been a Tory had I been there. My wife certainly would never have left Philadelphia to travel out West, but my family started in Jamestown in 1629 and kept heading West, and there’s nowhere left to go. If I could go to Mars on a one way trip, I’d do it in a heart beat.
But I am an American Patriot and, quite frankly, I’m sick and tired of a lifetime of criticism directed my way. It’s really absurdly easy for us in the 21st century to sit in a comfortable couch and criticize our ancestors, who thought they were doing the right thing. There WAS NO SUCH THING as a representative democracy back then. People were not citizens, they were subjects. It was a new concept and these guys went for it. Yes, they were imperfect. They left the slavery issue to their children just as we are leaving the debt issue to ours. Some of my ancestors owned slaves and some were slaves, so just get the hell over it.
It’s not all good, but being ethnocentric in our judgment is not all good either. I highly suggest reading about the founding of America in books such as John Adams, and 1776, by David McCullough, Andrew Jackson, by HW Brands, American Creation; triumph and tragedies at the founding of the republic, by Joseph Ellis, and just for good measure: 48 liberal lies about American History, by Larry Schweikart.
My favorite historical fiction? The Holy Bible, a rich tapestry about a vengeful authoritarian desert God (Old Testament) who had an epiphany, settled down and started a family and turned nice (New Testament).
Now, Boris. I’d been wondering about these special cashews at the bar? And I finally found some spiced with hot curry. My goodness, they are to die for! But you’d better have a bottle of wine with them because you’ll need something to wash them down.
Hey Mick
Two Questions:
Do you know any other good reads on Andrew Jackson? I’m very curious about him. My folks are Seminole and Cherokee (with a little Apache thrown in for good measure). I’ve gotten that historical side…I like to know more about Jackson. He seems like a very interesting figure (and the working class dude balanced the budget).
I live in Texas and a huge debate going on about textbooks in schools. Do you think exploring the lives of different folks in a historical period (slave, natives, owners, poor whites, immigrants, etc.), even though it may put the “heroes” in a bad light is important in looking at how America as a geopolitical territory was developed, laws were changed, civil movements grew, etc. or should we only present the positive aspects of American history, although that may leave out some other stories that may be really good for discussions about government and societal development? I’ve been dying to get your opinion because I’ve been arguing with both people on both sides of the debate. I don’t like anachronism; but I don’t comprehend wanting to talk about slavery, classism, xenophobia, because there are some good stories about folks coming together.
Umumum. The Red Tent by Anita Diamant is really good–a retelling of the story of Dinah from the Old Testament. I also like Jack Whyte’s take on King Arthur (the Camulod Chronicles). Marvel 1602 is a great take on several major Marvel superheroes, placed in the setting of the settling of the New World. Most of Louise Erdrich’s novels have historical elements; my favorites are The Plague of Doves and Four Souls.
The Red Tent counts as historical fiction? Ok…I’ve read that.
Oh, well…I guess we can argue over that!:B I don’t count the Bible as history, but The Red Tent has a historical setting and some factual historical elements, so I class it under historical fiction.
Historical fiction … I read Rosemary Sutcliff’s Sword at Sunset two summers ago and enjoyed it immensely. I read historical fiction infrequently but over the years I have read Shelby Foote’s Shiloh, Robert Graves’s I, Claudius, and Nikos Kazantzakis’s Freedom or Death. If The Red Tent counts, I read that as well as Kazantzakis’s The Last Temptation of Christ. That last book was profoundly moving and is on my re-read list.
I, Claudius by Robert Graves. Ancient Rome as superior soap opera. War and Peace is wonderful and surprisingly easy to get into. I enjoyed a different Kenneth Roberts–Arundel–very much as well
Also, Ellen’s mention of Shelby Foote’s Shiloh reminds me of The Killer Angels by Michael Shaara, which is about the Battle of Gettysburg. Short and powerful.
Rosemary Sutcliff’s stories had a great impact on the person I am currently. Love her!
Once again, I’m not able to follow instructions.
I have to chime in about the “divine nature and origin of our country.” If you mean “divine” in the sense that all creation myths include the involvement of deities, I’m OK with that as an anthropological observation.
But if you meant it is a claim of supernatural intervention in the affairs of a small British colony, I have to object. Because those who were there at the time would object.
Thomas Jefferson can speak for himself:
“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.”
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813
“The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814
“To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820
Betty-
I usually disagree with you, but this time I’m right their with you (partly because Jefferson had deistic, negative theology ideas that are familiar to my own theological practices and a person that I do revere).
Your quotes also got at the heart of one of my major quandaries about geopolitical territories. Each have formulation idiosyncrasies, but most follow a certain pattern. However, these United States of America have a since of unique individualism (an idiosyncrasy or trait) that is depended on an idea of sacredness. I’ve been torn apart because I don’t see it as something special but a construct needed to develop this particular geopolitical territory. People have told themselves this narrative and it has been instrumental in trying to create a national identity. Even “our forefathers” are seen as sacred entities rather than situated historical figures.
Historical fiction is one of my favorite genres. One of my favorites is Tallgrass by Sandra Dallas. It is set in Colorado during World War II, and a Japanese concentration camp is set up in the the rural town of Tallgrass. A young girl learns about prejudice when many of the farmers who need field help refuse to hire the young Japanese men because one of them has been unjustly accused of rape.
Another great historical novel was Emmeline by Judith Rossner. It is about the textile mills in Massachussetts during the Industrial Revolution. This will make you appreciate some of our labor laws!
2 Historical series….
Aubrey/Maturin novels by Patrick O’Brian – this was recommended to me as an undergraduate by my military history professor as the best way to really understand naval warfare in the Napoleonic age. Wow, was he right. The historical detail is amazing through all 20 novels – though it can be a bit dense. However there are several excellent illustrated guides that go with the books, that really help out in understanding all the sailing terminology. And the recipe book is lots of fun.
My other favorite historical series is the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon, which is a mix of history and fantasy. Claire was a nurse in WWII and is in the Highlands of Scotland on a second honeymoon, newly reunited with her husband after their separation during the war years. She stumbles into a circle of stones that pull her back in time to 1741 Scotland – with the Jacobite Rebellion about to break out. There are currently 7 books in the series that follow Claire and Jamie (the man she meets in the 18th century) over several decades and back and forth in time. All of the books are LONG but not only is the historical detail great (Gabaldon does a lovely job of inserting her story into the margins of known history), but these are some of the most amazing stories and characters I’ve ever encountered.
Master and Commander by Patrick O’Brian (not the same as the movie of this title, that was based on book 8 of the series)
Outlander by Diana Gabaldon
I’m not a great reader of historical fiction, but I concur that the Patrick O’Brian novels are wonderful. Ok, I was a Hornblower fan also and loved anything to do with the sea. But Aubrey/Maturin really bring you back in time, and make me wish I was British and on his side against the Americans. (not that I’m not patriotic! Really!)
I can’t give you just one title as my favorite work of historical fiction!
As a kid I recall being impressed by Irene Hunt’s Across Five Aprils and then at some point I began to read regular history books – it probably had to do with the fact that I was 10 in 1976 and there was a great deal of hoopla about the bi-centennial.
And then of course there were the big sweeping TV mini-series that they used to show, based upon books, like Alex Haley’s Roots, The Adams Chronicles which was a PBS series based on the book by Jack Shepherd, 1776 based upon the play of the same name and Herman Wouk’s The Winds of War and War and Remembrance. So I read books like that as a kid/young adult.
And as an adult I’ve read a number of historical fiction books like later books in the Poldark series that the author put out in the 90’s and early 00’s, a number of works by Edward Rutherfurd – my favorite is still Sarum; and Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follet (I can’t say as I thought the sequel was better than the original though) and I could go on but those are a few of my favorite historical fiction works.
And speaking of historical fiction I wonder how the Borgias series is? Does anyone known? I don’t have Showtime but Jeremy Irons is always good and that era in Italy/Europe was a fascinating one!
Phooey. I’ve lost my text 4 times, doing some fact checking and exiting out…this topic is so much my favorite!
The short version, because I really have to get back to work!
Desiree, by Annemarie Selinko, the story of Napoleon’s first love and future Queen of Sweden.
I LOVE Outlander and Diana Gabaldon…go hear her stories in person if you ever get the chance!
The Jalna series by Mazo de la Roche: the 16 book story of the Whiteoak family who established a Canadian dynasty. Originally British but settled in Canada after a stint in Colonial India. I devoured these in high school.
Gwen Bristow’s Plantation Trilogy: taught me a lot about the founding of the Deep South and rise of the slaveowning families. The first two, especially, are very good–Deep Summer and Handsome Road.
Michener’s The Source. I read it while living in Jerusalem, and it gave me goosebumps to be reading about events that had happened all around me.
Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Mists of Avalon. A feminist retelling of the Arthur sagas.
Sharon Kay Penman’s The Welsh Trilogy. If you never read anything else at all about Wales, you should read these. Especially appropriate as we celebrate the marriage of William of Wales–get some perspective on his ancestry!
I’ve got to stop now, but oh my, so many WONDERFUL books, so little time! Thanks, Will, for letting me talk about my favorites! I love getting patrons hooked on these…
Ditto — the Outlander series — I didn’t put it on my list as it is historical but has elements of romance and the supernatural that I thought might discourage those who are super serious about history. But on the other hand, the author paints such a vivid picture of the time period I can’s see how anyone that loves history wouldn’t enjoy that series!
One of my favorite stories that Diana Gabaldon tells at author visits is that she likes to go to bookstores to see where they put her novels. As Linda says, she finds them in Romance, Historical Fiction, Occult Fiction, Fantasy… Her favorite (and she felt most flattered by) place was when a Scottish bookstore put this American writer’s books in “Local Authors”!
MZB’s books are so fun. The Firebrand had quite an impact on me as a teenager–the retelling of the Trojan War from Cassandra’s point of view.
I love Firebrand! I’ve always wondered if anyone else had read it. MZB had real skill in historical fantasy
MZB=Marian Zimmer Bradley I think? for some reason I’ve never read any of her books. I’ll put Firebrand on reserve. What the heck, the library shelf hasn’t broken yet in my bedroom….
I love the Jalna books. I discovered them, like so many others, as a kid when I found Whiteoaks of Jalna on the rotating paperback rack at the drugstore. Many years later, when the BW, our oldest, and I were renting a house near the downtown of an oldish suburb for a couple of years, we found the rest of the series–first in the public library and then, volume by volume, in a little used book store. I’ve always thought of them as an engrossing mix of family saga, romance, psychological fiction, and Bildungsroman, but they do have a historical aspect now that you bring it up.
Thanks for some great reading ideas Mimi!!!
Having just done a booklist on this, I thought that I’d chime in with my two cents.
1. The Killer Angels, by Michael Shaara
2. The Kitchen Boy, by Robert Alexander
3. Drums Along the Mohawk, by Walter Edmonds
4. Marching to Valhalla, by Michael Blake
and two that were written shortly after the actual time period, but now fits the category:
1. The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck
2. The Quiet American, by Graham Greene
I think I’m going to have to copy and paste this days’ post and answers to my desktop for future reading. I’ll talk about my favorites later but Sutcliff is certainly up there!
Gone to Soldiers by Marge Piercy. I finished it thinking, this is a masterpiece. It follows several people through WWII. The description of a Marine fighting in the Pacific made me feel like I was right there with him. There are so many great WWII novels. Two others high on my list are The Book Thief by Markus Zusak and King Rat by James Clavell. Just amazing. The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Society is also wonderful.
The Things they Carried
I take umbrage at the suggestion that classrooms today do not analyze the full truth about American history. It is true the the winners get to write the history, but today in high schools students are taught to question, delve and research and there are many teachers who are not afraid to question the accepted myths of our history and look beyond the text book.
Unfortunately, in Texas, they may not have a choice because of the current move to change the curriculum and the textbooks used here. I’m not sure if you have heard of the current issues, but it could limit both the textbook as well as what the set curriculum is for social studies. And usually, textbooks that are approved and adopted in Texas are litmus test for other states.
I am very aware and am appalled and angry that a group with an agenda would try to write their own history – I hope they are not the “winners”
I believe it has a second vote; the first vote was yes for changing the textbooks. I’m not sure if the second vote has taken place, but it appears that it will be yes this time. With the financial problems Texas has, most educational resources, schools, and libraries will be closed or short staff, including the State Library and the huge consortium that assists educators and students from different educational levels.
At least one classroom in the U.S. was exposed to
Kenneth Robert’s Oliver Wiswell. In my junior year of high school our teacher asked some of us to read that work while other students read fiction with a different viewpoint, and we held a debate on whether the Revolutionary War was justified.
Gabaldon is a favorite of mine too.
My favorite historical novels are by Dorothy Dunnett – two series and a single.
The Lymond Chronicles (6 books) covers about 10 years (1547-1558) in the 16th century from the point of view of a Scottish nobleman. When the series opens, Mary Queen of Scots is a small child. The romantic (in the sense of larger than life – not love story) hero travels through much of Europe and the Mediterranean.
The House of Niccolo series (8 books) covers late 15th century European Renaissance, starting in Bruges, going as far south as West Africa and Timbuktu, as far east as Trebizond, and as far north as Iceland. The guy gets around.
The single, The King Hereafter, is based on the author’s premise that Thorfinn, Earl of Orkney, who united the people of Scotland, and MacBeth are the same person (to crib unashamedly from the Wikipedia article).
All of her books are heavily researched and densely plotted. Her characters are involved with many of the pivotal events of the day. She’s a mystery writer too, and each of the two series includes an on-going puzzle finished in the last volume – less successfully in my opinion in the Niccolo series than in the Lymond. I was just greatly relieved that she lived long enough to finish the series – she was getting pretty old by the time the last book (long, like all the rest) was done.
I think I’ve answered this in a previous post, but “The Kindly Ones” by Jonathan Littell is an amazing historical fiction novel set during WWII. It is extremely graphic and I have a hard time recommending it to just anyone, but the writing is fantastic. Will, you mentioned that you might try it out. Curious if you have yet?
War and Peace, for me, is among the greatest novels, so (again, for me) it is also at the top in the historical fiction genre. I may have missed then, but I’m surprised that Gone With the Wind and To Kill a Mockingbird haven’t been mentioned.
I’m not a huge historical fiction reader, but one of my favorite mystery series is Bruce Alexander’s Sir John Fielding series, set in 18th century London, using real people as characters mixed with fictional people. I have no idea how accurate the facts are, but the books have a wonderful sense of place and feel very real. I was taken in by Sir John Fielding & tried to find a biography of him to learn more; sadly, there wasn’t anything current.
My impression is that he was a real character, both in terms of being an actual person, and in terms of being splendidly idiosyncratic. I haven’t seen an actual biography of him but will post the title if I ever come across one. Please do the same if you should come across a title?!
I love historical fiction and mysteries so when I find both I am happy. One of the first I remember reading was Johnny Tremain by Esther Forbes about a young silversmith apprentice. Gave me a feeling of the American Revolution that I never saw in textbooks.
As an adult one of my favorites is The Alienist by Caleb Carr, the parts with Teddy Roosevelt while police commissioner in NYC were particularly interesting.
I love the Alienist (I wanted to be involved in forensic psychology or anthropology as a kid). I guess I don’t really understand the genre because some of these I have read. I thought historical fiction had to be about an actual event or situation in or around a historical event.
When I was in high school, I came home once with a report card with a B in History – the rest were ‘A’s. My father was satisfied with nothing but *all* ‘A’s. So, not as a punishment, but as an incentive to learn more history, I was restricted to reading nothing for fun but historical novels until the next report card.
Luckily, I was able to find quite a few that qualified – even reading books written in the 19th century, since they described events in their own time. And it’s a broad field – even science fiction can incorporate an historical novel – thinking of Jack Finney’s Time and Again, which I read later, and which covers the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire.
The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society
You’re right – I learned a lot from this one.
No one has mentioned Margaret Mitchell’s Gone With the Wind. I know that one sparked more interest in the Civil War era for me.
More currently Jacqueline Winspear’s Maisie Dobbs mystery series (Will reviewed this book last autumn), combined with Anne Perry’s Reavely series (starts with No Graves As Yet have given me more to think about with World War I. Since I grew up in the emotional aftermath of WWII, the first one tended to be overlooked. These have made me curious to know more.
I was so late coming to this post that I didn’t answer it. But GWTW would be my favorite. I also like a bumch of the old titles by Frank Yerby – I read those as a teenager. And who wrote the books about Theseus and the Minotaur – popular not classical.
I just finished the latest Maisie Dobbs book – they just get better. Now I am waiting, again, for the next one.
Mary Renault? The King Must Die?
OK, yes I know I am late….
Rosemary Sutcliffe was always a favorite while a pre-teen and teen. But then I found Kenneth Roberts…also (and to try to bring this one back to Will). I loved Northwest Passage. I enjoyed it so much, that it counts as one of the few novels which I have read more than once. I read it three times, most recently in 2003/04 just before canoeing the length of the Allagash River in Maine. Our trip ended about where the high point of the story was. While we did it in summer, we did not see anyone else for the first few days. Ahhhh the memories.
I’ve enjoyed many historical novels, going back in years to Andersonville and The Killer Angels and The Grapes of Wrath. Recently read novels that I’ve enjoyed are the Poldark novels by Winston Graham, Patrick O’Brian’s naval novels, and A. B. Guthrie Jr.’s novels of the West starting with The Big Sky. I recently read and did not appreciate Jeff Shaara’s Rise to Rebellion because of the inaccuracies in his narration of the Battles of Lexington and Concord. Also, he was very one-sided in his characterizations of the British officers from General Gage down to Captain Parsons and Laurie. These men were human beings deserving of being better researched and more objectively presented. I will definitely be reading Oliver Wiswell.