WILL UNWOUND #142: “The Death of Library Schools” by Will Manley
June 14, 2010Talk about mojo. I was actually going to write about the issue of library schools and the librarian “shortage” and just as I sat down to compose my thoughts, this very intriguing comment to last Monday’s post about librarian anger came across my screen. The commenter is anonymous. I have decided to reprint it here because otherwise most of you will have missed it since it is the 159th comment on a week old post:
I am a newly minted librarian, having received my MLS last month. I decided to only apply for a job I really wanted, in a city that I truly wanted to live in. I searched every day over a 6-state area for jobs, and only found one entry-level position in 4 months. I applied for it, and got it. I feel very fortunate, since I could just as easily be sitting at home watching soaps with all of my fellow library school colleagues. In my graduating class, I am the only one who has found a professional position so far. THE ONLY ONE.
I also knew that I would be competing with the masses, so I made sure to prepare for that possibility by working twice as hard as my peers and taking advantage of every opportunity to gain experience, increase my skill set, market myself, and maintain a 4.0 GPA. Thankfully, it all paid off. But for those who don’t have library experience, or who possess an otherwise average resume… they might as well hang it up and find something else to do. I don’t know how they’re ever going to get hired.
I know many others who graduated a year or two earlier who are still searching. My library school recently increased enrollment by 50%, which I think is an absolute disgrace. There simply aren’t enough open positions to justify churning out all of these graduates. On the very front page of my library school’s website, you’ll see the headline “U.S. News has listed Librarian as one of the best careers”, and find a link to the 2007 article. It’s simply deceptive. Most members of my class are not going to find a professional library position anytime soon, which means that a lot of talent is not being utilized. So sad.
by Anon June 13, 2010 at 7:02 pm
It’s always wonderful when someone comes along and writes my post better than I ever could. This commenter has basically said it all: library school students have been sold a bill of goods. Does anyone else cringe at the irony of a school of information studies giving out misinformation?
But beyond that rather obvious and regrettable issue is a much larger issue. Why are library schools selling a bill of goods? They want to stay alive! That’s not a justification; it’s a reason. Library schools are fighting for survival, especially the traditional library schools that are trying unsuccessfully to compete with the laptop schools.
These are very dark days in the library world. Skilled and experienced librarians are being terminated, unqualified people are now staffing public service desks (where public service desks still exist), and reference services are being surrendered to Google.
If our profession is going to survive, we need strong library schools. If the library schools die, the profession will die. If the profession dies, libraries will die.
Maybe this is a natural progression of falling dominoes, and there is nothing we can do about it: a)thousands of librarians get laid off, b) there are no entry level positions, c) library school graduates cannot get jobs, d) students stop investing their money in library school degrees, e) library schools are eliminated one by one, f) no new librarians are certified, g) libraries are run by amateurs (take your pick…bibliophiles, technophiles, bookstore employees, refugees from education), h) libraries cease to exist.
That’s the nightmare domino theory.
One question: How do you stop the dominoes from falling?
REMEMBER…THIS BLOG IS A GROUP EFFORT. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. LIBRARIES CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT LIBRARIANS. LIBRARIANS CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT LIBRARY SCHOOLS. LIBRARY SCHOOLS CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT LIBRARY JOB OPENINGS.
Hello, Will,
I think I missed the passage of the law that said you could not enroll in a university program unless there were job openings available, and that university programs must guarantee jobs upon graduation. Even the trade schools do not make sure promises. I also missed the rule that said that if you got a job, you were guaranteed to keep that job for as long as you wanted it.
For me, if I want to take courses in microbiology, I do NOT want someone telling me I cannot enroll in that program because there are no job openings. If it is my passion, that is what I want to learn to do, and I’ll deal with the market when I get there.
There are many people who are going through university programs that will put them in careers that they didn’t plan for, including careers that did not exist before.
If you decide that you want X job in Y city at Z institution, you may not get it. That doesn’t mean you are an abysmal failure, that you wasted your education and should have gotten into something more lucrative. People in all professions are losing jobs!
Read Who Moved My Cheese, and start looking for alternative careers that require the same skills as library work. Information management does not exist only in a library setting. Google hires librarians, and I’m guessing that those librarians who work there did not plan on working for Google when they were taking library courses. The librarian at the School of Fashion Design in Los Angeles may not have anticipated cataloging clothing.
We prepare ourselves as best we can for the future, but sometimes the future doesn’t happen as we would wish it too. My heart goes out to those who are being forced to make changes, and the lumps they will deal with along the way.
Jeanne, I have thought long and hard about the inherent value of a library school education and every time I think of it I come to the same conclusion: One goes to library school not to get an education, but to get a job. It is a form of vocational training. I, for one, loved library school, but I wanted to be a librarian, not an unemployed librarian or even worse an unemployable librarian. On the other hand, I went to college to get an education. I had no idea what kind of a job I aspired to when I started my freshman year and I couldn’t answer that question until midway through my senior year, but it didn’t particularly bother me because I was getting a good broad based liberal arts education that was teaching me how to think and write. My undergraduate education had inherent value unrelated to a possible job. I seriously doubt if anyone would go to library school for its inherent education value. You go to library school to train for a job and if that job doesn’t exist, I doubt if you’re going to go to library school. Yes, library schools can give you training that is valuable in other professions. My library school education was invaluable in preparing me for a mini career in city management, but that’s not why I went to library school. You take away library jobs, and you end up taking away library schools. Unless I’m totally missing something here.
For the record, I graduated last year and am employed in a professional position. Perhaps when you went to library school it was vocational school, but it really isn’t anymore. Where I went at least (University of Pittsburgh) it is very much a continuation of a liberal arts education. Maybe Pitt is significantly different from every other school out there…but I doubt that. Nobody learns skills in library school, we learn theory and you have to pick up the skills on your own. Those students who don’t realize that, don’t already have previous library experience, or are unwilling to relocate are just out of luck.
Anon…would you go to library school just for the joy of learning without any regards for a job?
Your question is one that other fields can ask as well. I do think it reprehensible that some are apparently lying to their prospective students.
You touched in passing on one topic that cannot get bigtime media coverage since the guilty have bought ads in all media: “laptop schools” as you so correctly term the proprietary colleges are not teaching students anything and charge more than real univerities and colleges. From what I have seen and read they are sending out know-nothings and know-nothings are not going to lead to a future need for librarians or books or thought or a working society. It is a tragedy too for those students who aren’t gaining the knowledge but will owe the loans.
Anon…education is being marketed as an on-line product. Want a car? You can buy it on-line. Want an education? Ditto.
I don’t think so, Will. You can go online to buy a car, but then you must at some point physically go to the car’s location and drive it off the lot. Too bad if your meticulous online research didn’t alert you to the fact that the car has a manual transmission and you can’t drive one or that the pickup truck you just bought is a whole lot bigger than you imagined and you’re scared to drive it down the street. Oops! Online, please meet real world.
As a student of a “laptop school” I would like to say that I am getting a far better education than I got at my pretentious New England private liberal arts university, at a much cheaper price. AND, getting my degree online allows me to work at the same time in a library. I am able to get both the theoretical education as well as the practical experience. Did you, Anonymous, get a degree online? Do you teach for an online program? What if your experience with online programs
Turner, if what you say is true and I have no reason to doubt you, why not do away with classrooms altogether? What’s your take on the future of education?
If you truly got a good education, Turner, it wasn’t from a proprietary “college.” I suspect you are one of their many well paid marketers. But if you are just a victim, that is the trouble — those who don’t have good educations don’t know the difference. No, of course I didn’t attend one. I was fortunate enough to come from an educated family and so wasn’t one of the poor souls suckered in. I have been unfortunate enough to work with some of the “graduates” of some of these proprietary schools in a job that needed an educated person filling it.
I think Turner and Anon are talking about two different things. Online programs run by library schools in real universities are different from Associate or Bachelors online programs run by proprietary (private, for-profit) schools.
Susan is right – I am a distance learner from a real university and not a proprietary school. However, a lot of my friends and family were weary when they learned that the majority of my school work was completed online. That said – I still think there is something to be said for online education. Not only does it force self discipline, but it seems that quite a bit of professional work (such as the myriad of committees that everyone is warning me about) is conducted through electronic communication. I am an advocate for a hybrid approach, with online education augmented with a few (2-3) face to face class meetings over the course of the semester.
We’ve got to get the public educated as to why this is an issue in our country. There are so many other issues right now, though, and people are used to taking their public libraries for granted that this is not going to be easy.
Joe has been telling me something that today I discovered for myself. Libraries are putting totally unqualified people who are willing to work for minimum wage behind what have been traditional professional service counters. I experienced an absolute horror story today when I called a library for some basic information. The person at the desk didn’t have a clue (but at least I did get to talk to a human being). This is scary and Joe is right. It is beginning to happen all over. Sorry for the rant, Elissa. You don’t need this. But what you are saying is also true.
I don’t consider it a rant. You’re right. If this is the kind of service we’re going to give, then there’s no reason to value libraries anymore. I’m passionate about helping every person who walks in the door of a library with whatever they need, to the best of my ability, but apparently I’m going to have to find another way to fulfill that role in the world.
One of my staff went to a neighboring library in a much bigger community as part of a project for library school. She asked the reference librarian (or the person who was sitting at the reference desk asking questions) “What’s the right way to get a fire started and keep it going in a wood stove?” The woman looked at her and said, “Do you actually expect to find that here?”
Stacey, this is what it’s coming to unfortunately with short staffing and unqualified people filling the ranks. Sad but true.
Whoops! She was *answering* questions. Well, not really…
I have to point out that providing good service does not require an MLS, nor is it necessarily associated with one. I’ve been a librarian (with an ALA-accredited MLS) for 18 years, and I’ve seen both excellent and terrible service delivered by both professionals and paraprofessionals. Sadly, some of the poorest service I’ve seen has been from degreed librarians who treated users with apathy or even contempt. Yes, a library degree (hopefully) gives one specialized knowledge and skills, but it doesn’t make someone either motivated or caring.
So long as the economy suffers, libraries and librarians will suffer.
For the people who really really really want to be librarians I say move to the place that has an in-residence program and work as a paraprofessional as you’re getting your MLIS. The experience will do two things: introduce you to LibraryLand and give you some valuable experience.
A student in an online program contacted me last year or the year before because she had to “observe” a librarian in action. I asked her why she wanted to be a librarian, having never worked in a library. She thought it would be “nice” and not nearly as difficult as her current job. I should also mention she wanted to stay in this city, where librarian positions are few and far between.
Ellen…this is a scary story. You say as the economy suffers so will libraries and librarians. I totally agree, and what freaks me out is how long this economic decline continues. If and when there is a recovery, what will be left of our libraries and what shape will the library profession be in?
Will, I live in an area of the country that was just beginning to recover from Hurricane Katrina, only to be assaulted by the ever-growing threat of the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Our foundering economy was only just starting to “think” about improving, and now all our fishermen and restaurateurs, as well as tourism, are being forced into unemployment, increased costs, and lack of business, respectively.
Anne Herbert is credited with saying, “Libraries will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no libraries.” Yet all across this state, funding is dropping by the wayside for these very libraries. How can libraries get through times of no money? Donations.
I’ve run into several recent library school graduates myself and have encountered the same situation you describe! They want to work in what they think of as an easy job in an easy field and have never worked in a library before. I cannot fathom that viewpoint – why anyone would get a college degree in a field simply because they think the work will be easy is beyond me!
In contrast, I happen to be in this field because I love the work — helping patrons and finding information about subjects I’d never think to study on my own – for example a recent reference question had to do with finding a book that detailed the rigging on traditional sailing ships – that was a fascinating question but the information I found was not information I’d have looked for one my own.
Linda and Ellen,
Are the two of you suggesting that unmotivated people are getting into our profession and that is a big part of our problem?
Yes, I would say that is part of the problem although I’m sure there are people that go into every profession with a mind set other than going into the profession because they want to do that specific kind of work.
For example, I’m sure there are a number of doctors in this country or lawyers who are doctors or lawyers more for the money that can be made than because they reallly want to do medical or legal work — no offense intended to any doctors or lawyers who read the posting — as I’m equally sure there are many dedicated persons working in those fields because they want to do medical or legal work.
Linda, okay I feel better about that. This issue is not peculiar to librarianship.
I’ve been a librarian worker bee throughout my career, Will, and I have had countless people tell me how lovely it must be to work in a library surrounded by books, quiet, and time to read to my heart’s content. I’d like that job!! My ex-husband, until I showed him otherwise, didn’t think I really worked when I left for my job. He was just one of many.
Yes, I do believe lots of people who don’t want to work hard think an MLIS is the ticket to a life of leisure on the job. Or they “like books” and think libraries will be a great place to work. It’s a service profession and that means working with people.
And it can be hard, frustrating work. My hardest job was at a public library. I put in more hours in an academic environment but the work isn’t as tough as it was at the public library. The corporate environment was good for many years but it became ugly, wearisome and, ultimately, unfulfilling – but the pay and benefits were phenomenal.
No wonder librarian pay is so low. People think all we do is read.
No, Jeanne, there is no law saying that a university program must guarantee students a job upon graduating. And of course anyone should take any classes they want to take. However, I do feel that a university should be honest about the job market with potential students. I remember when I was deciding what to get my master’s in back in 1991-92. I was interested in 2 areas, one being gerontology. When I spoke to the person in charge of that program at Roosevelt University he said he would happily welcome me into the program but felt that he had to caution me about the likelihood of finding a job in that field at that particular time. As an unemployed, suddenly single woman with a son to raise I very much appreciated his honesty. In the end, it wasn’t a major factor in my decision to attend Rosary College to get my masters in library science but it certainly was something I thought about seriously. I think all students should be able to expect that same kind of honesty from their college/university.
Imh…you are absolutely right. Academic programs that are inextricably linked to the job market should be completely honest about that job market. That’s basic.
Which labor market? Working in a career center library, I actually deal with this question all the time. Looking at labor market forecasts, especially when a graduate could work anywhere, a regional labor market forecast is not helpful.
Do we make labor market restrictions based on our region? For example, limit the number of students who can go to the University of Michigan because the outlook is poor in Michigan. That won’t work if the applicant wants to work in a region where the outlook is good, but they were accepted at Michigan.
Labor market data is also only as good as its collection: for example, there are many jobs that are suitable for librarians (the Google example is a good one) that don’t classify as a “librarian” when labor market statisticians gather their data. LMI may only be part of the solution to this problem, but LMI data has many flaws.
I was just telling almost exactly this same story to our son, lmh. In 1988, when I was finishing up my degree in Humanities, I decided that I wanted to teach Humanities in a community college. Well, lo and behold, my school had a Masters degree which was aimed toward people who wanted to teach Humanities at a community college. When I went to inquire about that degree, the people in the office of the Humanities department told me that actually, that degree really couldn’t get you a job anymore, and people who taught in any college setting needed PhD’s. I had no idea, but I’m sure glad that they were honest enough to tell me!
Elissa and Imh…what should library schools be telling prospective students?
Library schools should be giving students the facts about what percentage of their graduates wind up in library jobs and how long it took to get those jobs. This is bottom line information, the vast majority of students are in school to get a degree to lead to a job. I’m sure that information could be fairly easily gathered. They should also be informing students about library jobs in settings other than public or school libraries. I knew that sometimes a business or hospital might have a small library but I had no idea of other opportunities. That was one weakness of Rosary – next to no job placement help and certainly no information about other areas to explore. Happily, I wound up in a junior high school library which allowed me to use my previous teaching experience as well as my shiny new degree but knowing of more options would have been good.
Imh…it’s a relief to hear that not all school librarians have been eliminated.
There was a time when students referred to books such as “The Occupational Outlook Handbook” and the Peterson’s guides to colleges and universities, rather than listen to the sales pitch of every university.
What does the OOH have to say about the jobs outlook for librarians??
Petal, thanks for the memories. The OOC was a reference staple for many years.
Petal — I just grabbed the material below from the “Librarian” entry in the current (2010-11) Occupational Outlook Handbook, available online on the US Dept. of Labor website:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos068.htm#outlook
JOB OUTLOOK
Job growth is expected to be as fast as the average and job opportunities are expected to be favorable, as a large number of librarians are likely to retire in the coming decade.
Employment change. Employment of librarians is expected to grow by 8 percent between 2008 and 2018, which is as fast as the average for all occupations. Growth in the number of librarians will be limited by government budget constraints and the increasing use of electronic resources. Both will result in the hiring of fewer librarians and the replacement of librarians with less costly library technicians and assistants. As electronic resources become more common and patrons and support staff become more familiar with their use, fewer librarians are needed to maintain and assist users with these resources. In addition, many libraries are equipped for users to access library resources directly from their homes or offices through library Web sites. Some users bypass librarians altogether and conduct research on their own. However, librarians continue to be in demand to manage staff, help users develop database-searching techniques, address complicated reference requests, choose materials, and help users to define their needs.
Jobs for librarians outside traditional settings will grow the fastest over the decade. Nontraditional librarian jobs include working as information brokers and working for private corporations, nonprofit organizations, and consulting firms. Many companies are turning to librarians because of their research and organizational skills and their knowledge of computer databases and library automation systems. Librarians can review vast amounts of information and analyze, evaluate, and organize it according to a company’s specific needs. Librarians also are hired by organizations to set up information on the Internet. Librarians working in these settings may be classified as systems analysts, database specialists and trainers, webmasters or Web developers, or local area network (LAN) coordinators.
Job prospects. Job prospects are expected to be favorable. On average, workers in this occupation tend to be older than workers in the rest of the economy. As a result, there may be more workers retiring from this occupation than other occupations. However, relatively large numbers of graduates from MLS programs may cause competition in some areas and for some jobs.
– Employment, 2008: 159,900
– Projected Employment, 2018: 172,400
– Change, 2008-18: 12,500
The report from the Occupational Outlook Handbook is the same as it was ten years ago. At that point it was expected that new staff would be hired to replace retirees. Two things happened. First, the economic recession melted the 401K funds that many thought carry them through retirement. Many late fifties librarians could no longer afford to retire. Second, the libraries followed the industrial lead and handed off the responsibilities of those that did retire to existing staff. The current outlook seems to miss that hours and branches are being cut in the pubic library sector. In the academic sector the rising costs of subscription databases is putting a serious crimp in hiring new academic librarians. For myself, I consider attending an MLIS program as economic suicide. Even if I do succeed in finding a job in a library ( I haven’t three years after graduation), it will pay substantially less and have lower benefits than my job in the factory.
I don’t know how the domino effect might be halted, Will, but I still think libraries are a vital need to our society. I also think even if we were experiencing economic stability or growth, our libraries would be undergoing serious ‘renovations’ on multiple levels.
This is an awkward and sensitive topic for me having just deferred my enrollment to begin my second masters to Fall 2011. I understand following one’s passion for learning regardless of what the job market might be–I’m thrilled to be a professional musician, but my parents certainly weren’t. Yet, I knew from the very beginning that a career in music wasn’t going to make me rich, and r-e-a-l-l-y knew I was taking a risk when I chose not to play in a symphony in order to follow my passion elsewhere.
However, when I decided to add ‘librarian’ to my roster of activities, I found that in order to do the kind of work I wanted to do, an MLS was required. And when I began the selection process and narrowing down my university choices, NEVER in any of the several phone, email, and in-person conversations did anyone (administration–including deans!, staff, faculty, and students) give any indication there was something to be concerned about within the industry, in general, and the job market, specifically. Even ALA is guilty of a lack of direct and open discussion.
Do I expect the universities to provide a job upon graduation? Certainly not. However, I do expect a level of absolute candidness at every step so that we students (and potential students) are as best prepared as possible. I especially expect that candidness from universities when they blatantly market themselves to students wanting a job in this field–and they do. Among other things, in New Student literature and one-on-one conversations, students are encouraged to begin the career placement process from the moment they begin their studies.
Only after stumbling upon this blog and other independent sources, which then led to further research, have I gained a far clearer sense of what truly is going on out there ( I knew it was bad, but wow!). It is a disservice to everyone involved–universities, students, libraries, and patrons–not to state the plain facts: The emperor is not wearing any clothes!
Elizabeth, I do love your comments because of your very strong powers of analysis and your ability to articulate your conclusions. First, this blog has been a revelation to me also. Until I started blogging, I really didn’t know the “rest of the story” in the library profession. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, there is an unholy alliance created by mutual economic interests between the mainstream library media, the library schools, and the ALA. The message that there is a growing shortage of librarians that will soon grow into a crisis has clearly been de-mythologized, and students who have taken out loans and plunked down thousands of dollars have every right to feel victimized. On the other hand, very few financial gurus predicted this prolonged economic slump (again self interest at work in the personal finance industry!)and so the library schools cannot be faulted for not seeing what no one else saw. On the other hand, they certainly should be setting the record straight now. Your situation is precisely what bothers me about our future….a very bright, articulate person delays a career choice for librarianship because there are no jobs. You should be part of our future and you are not. That scares me about where we will be as a profession.
Can’t get rid of me that easily, Will.
But on a more serious note, first thank you for kind words. I should clarify that I am deferring primarily because of my current financial situation, though the poor job market also made the decision easier.
In the meantime, I will endeavor to gain as much practical experience as possible as a volunteer in my children’s school libraries and one of our county libraries. But I also intend to explore alternatives to the traditional library. I’ve no idea what, if anything, will result, but I’m hopeful a little niche can be discovered. Suggestions are welcome!
Elizabeth, I might throw this out in a future post and see what creative ideas, our unwinders might come up with. Hang in there.
Okay, I am really tired of the “laptop” school term. I got my undergraduate degree through the traditional method and then enrolled in online “laptop” library school because I have a family and a job that prevented a move. I had already worked 10 years in a library and it was the ONLY way I could advance past checking in books. I have a couple of friends who went to “regular” library schools and they didn’t work HALF as hard as I did. On the other hand at the time I was in school, two other co-workers were enrolled in very highly esteemed library schools and neither of them worked as hard as I did. In fact, I was amazed by their lack of dedication and enthusiasm for the classes and programs (we did a lot of comparing) Guess what? They both have full time librarian positions. I have a part-time position. I have already given away enough information that people will know who I am, but oh well. Middle aged women who attend library school, get straight “A’s” and have worked in the field for over 13 years can’t complete with testosterone and youth. I will stop being bitter when everyone else stops using “online school” as if it were an epitaph. A student will get out of an education whatever they put in to it and that is the bottom line.
That said, I agree the library schools should not promote their programs as if they are no job shortages out there in library land.
Book Chick, personally I think the on-line students should exploit the argument that they bring a special dimension to a traditional library staff in that they know first hand how to deliver electronic services to remote users. I think the bias against on-line students (which I personally don’t think is fair) is that they are less qualified in providing face to face services such as reference, readers advisory, storytelling, puppetry, and ya work. Over time this may change but first there have to be jobs that on-line students can move into to prove their mettle. Right now on-line vs. traditional is moot, because there are no jobs to prove anything one way or the other. Sad but true. One other thing, book chick, traditional classroom library school programs are dinosaurs. The library schools that survive this recession, will all be on-line because of the convenience to the student and teacher for the very reasons you gave from your own life situation. Traditional simply will not be able to compete with on-line for students and teachers.
I’m on the same bandwagon. I also dislike the negativity associated with the term “lap top” education. Some of the online programs are really rigorous. I obtained my Associates Degree by attending night classes in an actual traditional/physical setting but just graduated with my Bachelors Degree, via Empire State College – and that was a completely online program. And I’ll say this – I never worked so hard in all my life to get that degree – while also working full time.
I didn’t quite make straight A’s as you did – I had one B+, but never the less the degree required a tremendous amount of research and writing. My last paper, for one of my last two classes, was on the procedure the Nazi’s used to carry out the Holocaust, it was 37 pages long and it was one dark paper to write but I learned a tremendous amount. My point of course being online education should not automatically be equated with an inferior education – like traditional colleges the education one receives depends upon the school one is attending.
And I happen to have enough faith in both online education and the library field – to be working on my registration to start my MLIS at Drexel, via their entirely online program, in the fall.
Linda…good for you. Drexel has an excellent on-line program. But I repeat this issue of on-line vs. traditional when it comes to library schools is a non-issue. The traditional programs will not be able to compete with the on-line programs. Everything will be on-line within 3 or 4 years in the schools that survive the recession.
Maybe I’m just being optimistic but I don’t see the situation in the library field to be quite as dire as to equate it with a domino effect.
I think the library field is going through a transitional process based upon the availability of information found on the Internet and the fact that said information is accessible from so many different portable wi-fi/3&4 G devices to people 24/7/365.
I think libraries and trained library staff are very important in this new high tech information age. After all just because someone can access the Internet doesn’t mean that he or she has any idea how to do search for information online or in libraries that will gain relevant results.
Having said that, I am aware that many non-library people have a view that seems to be particularly rampant among those who control library funds that “oh well, we have the Internet now, why do we need libraries?”
I don’t agree with that assessment but I do think it will be a number of years before the mind set of those people changes to reflect the reality that it is more important than ever before to have trained library staff to assist patrons and not simply a warm body without any training to speak of that can “assist” patrons from behind any library service desk.
And of course whenever the economy is in a crisis large or small non-profits have their funding cut…
I guess what I’m taking the long way around the barn to say is that I think eventually things will turn around in the library field; but I will also say I do feel some sympathy for the graduating MLS students without experience because they may very well have to take their degrees and find work in other fields. Certainly if I were in a position to fill a job for a librarian – and I had one person with many years of experience and a good track record of service – I’d hire that person in a heart beat before the recent graduate without any experience…
Perhaps I should have phrased that as being “unrealistically optimistic”…
Linda…under normal circumstances I would readily agree with your assessment. Unfortunately these are not normal economic circumstances. This recession is different from anything we have endured since the Great Depression. The problem is that governments and universities are making major downsizing moves which I fear will be permanent even when the economy recovers because they do not want to put themselves behind the financial 8 ball again. The rise of the Tea Party is a manifestation of this gut feeling. Throw in your point about the internet is everyone’s new public library and the future looks quite bleak. Sorry.
“After all just because someone can access the Internet doesn’t mean that he or she has any idea how to do search for information online or in libraries that will gain relevant results.”
It has been my experience that most people consider themselves excellent searchers, just like most people consider themselves excellent drivers. And even though most Google searches are poorly constructed and do not avail themselves of the hidden power of that search engine, we can expect Google to continually improve its ability to deal with messy, ill-formed, natural-language queries.
Likewise most people think “it’s all on the Internet,” though we know it isn’t and that most have no efficient way to find most of the material that is there.
But the web is open 24/7/365 and allows you to “do it yourself.” Doing it yourself is rooted deep in the American character, and Americans love it and have always disliked middlemen. Whole marketing strategies are based on cutting out the middlemen.
Librarians sure look like middlemen to me.
In the past we were safe because for a lot of what we offered, there was no reasonable alternative. Now there is. That it isn’t as good doesn’t matter. The public doesn’t seem to sense, or care deeply about, a quality difference. (And even our assumptions about our reference skills are questionable. Wasn’t there a study of reference in the 1990s that said we gave correct and complete answers only 55 percent of the time?)
I took a ten-year detour from libraries in the publishing industry in the 1980s, and in the middle of that decade page design and layout programs such as Aldus PageMaker appeared. At the time my magazines relied on a outside photocomposition service for our typesetting. The owner of that firm told me he wasn’t the slightest bit worried about competition from desktop publishing software, since such software could never match the human skills of an experienced photocompositor. Within a few years he and all the services like him were either out of business or had transitioned to desktop publishing services. No, the early programs didn’t do things like kerning for a pleasing appearance as nicely as a human, but they did it close enough, at much less cost and much more convenience.
Would I be out of line to suggest the same forces are at work in libraries?
You don’t have to be sorry! We just have a slight difference of opinion. And after all I have to be optimistic to go to library school right now even with my years of experience; because if I really thought the entire library profession was going to fizzle out in the next 10 years – I wouldn’t bother…as there would be no point in doing so if I thought the whole profession was going to disappear.
While there were things I really enjoyed in library school, I went to school for a job. A paying job that I could support two preschoolers. It is all very well to talk about the inherent value of an education, which, btw my younger son completely rejects, but Library School was no different than a trade school in essence. I did want to be a librarian, but I did this for a job. MONEY. It is all very well after close to 20 years to worry more about the intellectual satisfaction as opposed to the money, but that wasn’t my attitude in school and dirt poor. I don’t think anyone in my class was in school for the joy of it. We had people starting second careers as librarians because they figured it was less stressful than whatever their prior careers had been and most of us chose it out of love, knowing we could make more in other majors. But every one of us wanted a job. My school did try hard to help us get jobs. I think even the professors in the ivory towers understood we were in this for practical reasons.
On to Will’s comments. I’m a bit skeptical f the domino theory. It sure wasn’t true with Communism. I do agree that if I were a student now, and discovered I couldn’t get a job after my school’s website had that article about librarian jobs, I’d sue them if I could get the finances together to do so. Deceptive advertising simply is immoral. These schools need to be figuring out as someone said how to expand the job opportunities, even if in other fields for these students. They certainly don’t have any obligation to produce a job. I did not resent my school for the 6 month search. But they do have an obligation to be honest! Or should have that obligation!
Joan, impressive comment. What part of the domino theory doesn’t work for you? For me it all flows together.
More historical background than any flaw I see in your logic. The domino theory in the 50s through 80s was that we needed to combat the Communists so that they didn’t take over the world country by country. It seemed perfectly logical but didn’t work that way because of unknown weakness in the Soviet Union. While history never repeats exactly, it often does repeat themes. No, I’m not comparing library careers to Korea, etc but I am wondering if there isn’t a similar flaw in the logic. Maybe it is just wishful thinking. This is the best I can do on a Monday too darn early in the AM. If something occurs to me, I’ll take another wack at it.
Joan, I’m cheering you for being so candid about the reason that you went to library school. I’ve caught a lot of grief for being the same way (the “if it’s not your life’s great calling, get out!” contingent is a loud one), and it’s good to know that I’m not the only one who, first and foremost, got into the profession as a way to pay the bills.
I’m surprised Jess. I think everyone in my class adored libraries. But with the exception of a few of the youngest students in their early 20s (smart kids, natch) most people were absolutely focussed on the job procurement part. It didn’t keep us from having sometimes very fierce debates on issues similar to what we’ve batted around here. It didn’t mean we didn’t admire people with great intellectual powers. But I can’t think of one who would have sneered if someone had said they were in it mostly for a job. Of course, this was U of A, Tucson AZ and we got a large number of students from the midwest who came from very practical backgrounds. But I’m sorry you caught flack for that. II think most people on this blog are too mature and civilized (AND intelligent!) to sneer at such honesty in preparing for a career that doesn’t require you to starve in an attic somewhere.
I tend to agree with Linda, and appreciate her note of optimism. The world is going through major changes in how things are done, and librarians may indeed find that they will have a different role in whatever comes next. Library schools will also change, and as Will noted, online classes make financial sense. But will library schools disappear?
Several unwinders have noted that library schools have an obligation to let prospective students know the reality of the job situation, and I agree. However, with job information readily available online, it shouldn’t take much searching to learn what the prospects are.
And for new graduates, when I got my library degree, it took me three years to find a library position, and then I had to relocate. In the meantime, I worked at whatever I could find, but never gave up on finding a ‘real job.’ So, hang in there– somehow.
Yes, this information is available online but I would want to know about my school specifically. How many Rosary graduates got jobs? In what libraries? How long did it take them? What can my school do to enhance my chances of being hired? Does anyone in my school have some secret tips or contacts for getting a job in my field? Can they point me to people outside of Rosary who could give me more information? Let’s remember that librarians are all about information but doesn’t sound like our universities are going all out to share some with their students. Besides, there’s nothing better than face-to-face communication. We don’t want everyone to get all their information online!!! If that happens, none of us need ask for job information.
Each of the 30+ schools in my district have a full-time librarian with a full-time aide so we’re pretty lucky in that regard. Not that everything was perfect….I was in my position for 15 years and not once during that time was our budget increased. As books got more expensive and our population more diverse it became more and more difficult to stretch those dollars to meet my students’ needs. I felt that price comparison was the most important part of my job as I tried to provide as much as possible for as many as possible. No child should have needs unmet in a district with the financial resources we have. I retired in June of 2009 and do not miss the job at all. Towards the end, I felt that the district was paying lip service to the idea of school librarians but wasn’t willing (notice I didn’t say able) to increase our budget. They did, however, redo each library: new bookcases, furniture and so on. But not one red cent for more books. It will be interesting to see if the district remains committed to having full-time librarians in every school in the future.
Imh…School librarians were the most important people to me in my elementary and high school years. They showed me the way to independent learning outside the classroom structure. I can’t imagine schools without librarians.
I think it is the schools’ position to do everything in their power to attract students to that particular program. It’s their job. I also think that one of the main problems with the library world is that for many years now students have been fed the line “60-70% of the positions in the library field will be open in the next 3-5 years.” I don’t believe this is an out-and-out lie, but I can tell you how excited I was to learn that I was entering a field where over half of the current employees were expected to retire. Come to find out, that’s just not going to be happening any time soon. I believe it is this estimate, along with some misconceptions about the position, that entices people to enter the work force as a librarian. People think that it is so easy to work at a nice, quiet library, maybe even catch up on your reading while you’re at work. I know many people that don’t understand the difficulties and complexities associated with the position. I think I mentioned it before on here, but my first reaction when I tell people I have a Master’s degree in Library Science is, “you have to go to school for that??” Ugh.
As for the domino effect, I think either we reach a happy medium where some positions go away for a while and it stabilizes, or, in a best/worst case scenario, we lose too many libraries/librarians and the public will realize the importance of this particular institution and demand more!!! I doubt this, but I do believe it’s possible.
“People think that it is so easy to work at a nice, quiet library, maybe even catch up on your reading while you’re at work.” LOL!
Yeah, they don’t think about dealing with Mrs. X, whose son is so gifted he ought to be in the program with the older kids, even though he’s three years too young, or the person who has to have an Internet station NOW, even though every terminal is taken, and if he’s waited half an hour three of them would have opened up. They don’t know about the patron whose number on the caller ID makes you flinch because he’ll tie your phone up for half an hour being abrasive and rude while you tried to locate titles that nobody owns. I’m sure I could come up with more examples, but I’m trying to think of the happy things right now (like the storytimes the kids are so anxious to get to they try getting into the room as soon as they walk in the library–so cute!)
I think you hit on a key point. I’ve seen it happen over and over. Some introvert in a stressful job seeks counseling and the counselor says, “Well, you like books, don’t you?” In this target demographic, who would say “No”? Thus we get another mid-career change to librarianship. Arghh!!
ry…As far as I can determine, the reason the great rush to retirement never happened is because of the staggering price of health insurance for folks in the 55 to 66 age range. That is only going to get worse. Librarians, like others, won’t retire until they qualify for Medicare. The occupational demographers never factored health care costs into the retirement equation.
Health care costs have distorted the American workplace. Would we all be better off if employers had never taken on the role of health insurance provider in the first place? (An innovation of the WWII years, if I recall the history correctly.)
So if health care is what is keeping librarians from retiring, what happens when universal health care kicks in in a few more years? Will a lot of older people in many different professions retire all at once, making a huge amount of room for graduates?
Will, I’d be very interested in a conversation about the criteria future libraries should meet. That seems to be one of the underlying questions in this discussion–perhaps your idea of a post specifically addressing this concern will allow some viable possibilities to rise to the top. If libraries are to survive, we need to re-think how libraries view the public as much as adjusting to how the public looks at libraries. How do we continue to direct the public through our doors?
Today’s issue of our major daily, The Arizona Republic, featured two page-one articles on the plight of metro Phoenix’s public libraries, most of which have seen unprecedented cuts in staffing, materials budgets, and hours. Phoenix Public Library, the largest system in the metro area, has shed something like 140 positions since the economic depression began.
I noticed that in discussing the services citizens said they were missing, the reporter cited help with job searches, computer access, and entertainment. Books, reading, reference, and children’s programs were not mentioned by name, though some aspects of books, reading, and programming fall under “entertainment,” of course.
If citizens are telling us that what they primarily want from their libraries is computer access and entertainment, it suggests what our role can be in the future and what kind of staff, and training for that staff, we may need to provide. Traditional librarian roles may disappear. Reference librarianship, if not already dead, is functioning in much reduced circumstances. Lots of computers and hours open, staff with computer (not book) expertise, and lots of pop-reading titles and movie DVDs — inexpensive entertainment — are the things the public wants now, if the newspaper account is to be believed.
So figuring out our role in the changing landscape of reading, technology, culture, and funding may be Task One, as Elizabeth suggests above. How fast can library school curricula shift to meet the needs of libraries?
My chief worry about libraries becoming chiefly computer and entertainment places, rather than information, research, and learning places, is whether such a focus can be sustained as city and county budgets get ever tighter. Much of our lost funding is never coming back, because with unprecedented public debt and unprecedented payments needed to service that debt, the demands of so-called “essential services,” and taxpayer rebellion, money for libraries will remain scarce. With police, fire, streets and public works crying for more, will city council members, aldermen, and county supervisors be inclined to expend tax money to provide free computing and entertainment? We may want to think about our role and about how we publicize what we offer and what we do.
“Domino One,” Will, is the role of the library in society. Promoting reading and lifelong learning or entertainment? Both? What roles will funding authorities be willing to support?
“Chief . . . chiefly” in the first sentence of the penultimate paragraph. Ugh. How come I proofread and don’t see this stuff until after I click “submit”? Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.
Elizabeth, I have a formula that works every single time. Put the emphasis on children’s services. It is apparently to simple for anyone to understand.
True, so far they haven’t invented a computer that can read aloud to a bunch of energetic preschoolers and keep their attention! Don’t even try to get the ‘puter to do arts and crafts! OK, I readily admit that I can’t do arts and crafts either. And BTW I note that I don’t recall a single teacher ever mentioning arts and crafts in library school except possibly as a subject heading.
Do you really think this is a new development or that only library schools do it? Really?
When I got my undergrad degree in accounting the schools all pushed us through a public auditing curriculum, regardless of the fact that the majority of us wouldn’t be able to get into a CPA firm. They could have told us that and offered classes in private accounting or government accounting, but they didn’t because that wasn’t where their endowments and tenured professors were coming from. My daughter’s undergrad degree is in theater communications with a music minor. Think she’s found a job? That’s the way the university system works, or rather doesn’t work. In fact that’s the way all for-profit schools work (and all universities are for-profit – otherwise they wouldn’t have sports teams). They don’t make money by telling you that the career you’ve volunteered to pay them for won’t actually have a job for you. That would be poor marketing. Besides, they aren’t in control of the job market, so it’s your problem not theirs if you choose poorly. The system is broken, and has been for years. But HR departments, professional associations like the AMA, ABA, ALA, ASCPA, etc, and the media buy into the system instead of trying to change it. You buy into it with your snark about “competing with laptop schools” and “unqualified people staffing the service desks”.
Here’s a quarter, buy a clue: most of the people coming out of library school are unqualified to work a public service desk. They’ve spent two years reading studies about the Internet habits of fishermen in Norway and think that qualifies them to explain to Aunt Mattie whether the advertisement about this new miracle drug will help her. They come out of school with a sense of entitlement and think they know things and are better than the non-degreed, or other-degreed staff who have worked with the public for years. Then they have to be trained to actually do their job by these same people that they have probably already insulted, and to add injury, receive twice the pay.
Meanwhile, governments don’t want to pay libraries to staff every position with high-priced professionals, and don’t buy into the idea that it takes a masters degree to help someone find a book or use a computer. So, they don’t fund for those positions. It leaves administrators with the choice – which is better service, to open the library with “professionals” for 5 hours a day or with “paraprofessionals” for 10 hours a day?
The ALA has complicity in this, too. Not only have they created a false sense of entitlement in librarians, but they have been going on for the last few years about how all the boomers are old and are going to retire and leave a vacuum in the professional ranks. They even got Laura Bush on the bandwagon and got federal funds to increase library school enrollment. In doing so, not only have they created an “us against them” relationship between degreed and non-degreed library staff, they’ve also created a growing sense of ageism between new librarians and boomers who actually aren’t going anywhere; because what the ALA has not managed to do is get the profession taken seriously by funders so they actually pay enough for us to retire on.
You want library anger – here it is. I am sick to death of being told to get out of the way and make room for the new wave. That because I’m a boomer I’m out of touch and don’t know what the new kids know. That I’m too old to do anything but walk out onto the ice floe and wait to die. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Well, new kids, the demographics of the world goes like this – Boomers are the majority – unlike our parents we didn’t have large families, or sometimes any families. So we outnumber you. We are not only librarians, we are library customers. We are politicians who decide how much the funding the library gets, and voters who pass or reject the bond measures. And a lot of us are starting second or even third careers by going back to school – laptop schools, because we like the convenience, and don’t want to put up with the on-campus excrement we had to deal with the first time around. We are getting library degrees, too.
If I were in charge of a large public library today, Deb, I’m not sure I would spend any more money on “professionals,” exactly for the reasons you cite. Citizens are telling us they want more hours open and more computer help. These days, I can outsource cataloging and processing, let the old hands handle what reference remains, and hire lots of people to help with the latest iteration of WORD, show how to attach resumes to emails, etc. One scenario for the public library of the near-future: a handful of professional managers and an army of what we have in the past called “paraprofessionals.” I know of a system or two in my backyard that has headed in that direction. What do you think?
Joe, everything you have been saying since last week I have been noticing in real life. The model you have observed, replace librarians with generic service givers, simply does not work for libraries. Libraries are far too complex in terms of the many resources they have the capacity to provide. If we go to this new model with generic service givers please do not call it a library. These are dark days, my friend, and everything you have been predicting is coming to pass. I see it happening in front of me.
Deb, what is the solution? How would you change the system?
I agree with you about the sense of entitlement that many people, oh say under the age of 30, have today. I see that too both in people working in the library field and patrons who fall into that age group – generally speaking.
I’ll also say that some of us non-Boomers working in library land do very much value Boomers for their experience and insight.
I’m 44 so I’m not in the under 30 age group and not a Boomer myself but I’d much rather work with Boomers than people, in general, under age 30 who think anyone above that age doesn’t have a clue even when, as you pointed out, they are new to the field as compared to those of us with many years of experience.
I am also 44. I see that sense of entitlement on blog comments but I have yet to see it at work. I have people under 30 working for me, some of whom are working on their MLIS. They have a great work ethic and I don’t get that vibe from them.
The entitlement thing certainly doesn’t apply to everyone under the age of 30.
It goes to show one really shouldn’t generalize as a general rule.
At our library we currently have four staff members who are under age 30 — and none of them has that type of a world view –so that ideology certainly isn’t a universal thing by any means.
Matt, as a librarian who turns 26 tomorrow, I thank you for speaking up for the under-30 crowd. We’re not all entitled twerps. I worked multiple library jobs all through libschool, and I accept my spot at the bottom of my workplace totem pole. My mentor is a “para”professional in her 40s who can run circles around me at the reference desk. I’m grateful to work with people from whom I can learn so much.
Happy Birthday tomorrow, Jess! I love the energy of librarians in their 20′s, and I haven’t met any that seem to feel entitled.
Thanks, Elissa! I think that librarianship, and public librarianship in particular, is not a major draw for the entitled folks among us. I thrive on the unpredictability and rampant absurdity that characterize public library work; I don’t think those characteristics appeal to the “l’état c’est moi” crowd.
Jess, your B-day is tomorrow? You’re one day off from my son’s b-day! Have a wonderful one! And many more!
Jess, is there a pay differential between you and your paraprofessional mentor? Sounds like she is doing the work of a “professional” so…
Joe, there is a pay differential. I make more. I’ve heard arguments both ways (i.e. “It’s fair that you make more because you spent the time/expense on a M.S., and your co-worker didn’t” and “It’s not fair that you make more because your co-worker’s job is just as hard as yours.”) Either way, I’ve never met a parapro who wasn’t underpaid.
May I point out that these moans on how entitled the under 30 crowd feel sounds awfully familiar to me. I could swear I’ve read of people who felt the Boomer generation felt totally entitled to just about anything. Be fair people and consider: how much of this is older people who have different attitudes than the younger crowd and interpret it as a sense of entitlement? I wonder just how real this is as an issue. I’m a lot more concerned about the attitude of the public who automatically screams that they pay way too much in taxes and consider libraries unimportant and unnecessary. The kids who actually do enter the field thinking it easy will drop out of school or quit jobs and go elsewhere opening up at least a couple of positions for those who don’t expect the job to be a piece of cake.
Joan, I believe that every generation has it’s defining event, that gives the generation a unique shape and character. The Depression; WWII; Vietnam, Watergate, and Woodstock; Polyester (I’m serious!); and Global Warming. These things shape the way generations look at the world.
Thanks, Joan! Happy birthday to your son
I’ll pass on the good wishes and I hope you had a ball today! Or are you and the fiance celebrating this weekend? Either way, take a moment to appreciate yourself! BTW I’d love to work for you if you were my manager. I think Will is on to something there. And you definitely can write. Whether you can write in a style or format that will attract an audience is another matter, but I’d be betting you can.
No celebrations with the fiance, since I won’t see him til late August. Doh. My co-workers were beyond fabulous, though.
You’ve given me something to think about in terms of writing to attract an audience. I have the poet’s curse of being read solely by other poets; I wonder if I could buckle down and crank out a genre story that readers could connect with. I know it’s not easy, but… hmm.
Thank you muchly for the kind words about managing. At this point in my life, I would make a terrible manager because
1) I have CRS: Can’t Remember Shit. :p Seriously, my memory is abysmal. If I don’t write things down, they’re gone, and even writing them down does not guarantee success.
I need to hone my ability to quickly make a choice and stand by it without looking back before I can manage effectively.
2) I need more on-the-ground experience. Five years in libraries have taught me lots, but it’s only a beginning.
3) I am too indecisive. I think. Maybe.
Then again, my Director says that I am too self-critical, so maybe I’d do better than I think. Either way, thank you for your kindness and encouragement. It means a lot to this newbie.
Unfortunately the only way to learn management as far as I can tell from my non managerial career is to learn on the job. I’m absolutely set against it for myself. 1) I hate hate hate paperwork 2) I have totally the wrong mind set for this institution. 3) I HATE paperwork. I could go on for a long time. Number 1 is the big one for me. But I also have learned that those who can manage are pearls. So if it appeals, go for it! As for the genre stuff, what I’ve discovered is that you can write whatever you really want as long as you have the proper outer clothing. I’ve seen sci fi that are actually societal or political critiques, ditto for mysteries. I believe it was Piers Anthony who first pointed this out, so I can’t take any credit for the observation.
Libraries disappearing frankly terrifies me. There, I said it. Both because I love libraries and because I don’t know what else I would do. I know libraries well. I know my skills are transferable but don’t know for the life of me what kind of job I would want. This is where I fit in.
I’ve worked in public libraries and 20 years. I will be working for about 30 years more the way it looks now. Right now, things are not too bad here. In fact, we are adding on. But last night while joining Netflix I could actually hear the hammer driving a nail in the library coffin. I mean, here I am with direct access to the library collection and I am joining Netflix.
Because it is more convenient and the selection is better, right? And your decision is being repeated thousands of times a day by our patrons, who may see less reason to remain patrons.
More convenient mostly. I can stream a movie or tv show any time through my wii. No waiting.
Has anyone seen this article? I just finished my BA and have plans to obtain an MLIS. A co-worker sent me these articles…
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/law_librarian_blog/2010/06/forbes-worst-masters-degrees-mlis-ranks-25th-out-of-30.html
http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/19/masters-degrees-jobs-leadership-careers-education-worst_slide_2.html
Thanks, Tina. This is great info.
I can sympathize–to a point. I graduated in the end of Summer, 1974 during a time when about 50% of graduates were finding jobs. I finally secured a position in 1977: 2-1/2 years later. We were just about to enter the Jimmy Carter years, a time of high inflation–12% and more as I recall, and high unemployment–over 10%, just like today. I remember being kind of angry at the time, especially when one of the library school secretaries said something to the effect that they wanted me to keep in touch so they could help me find a job.
I remember being so pissed. I told her, too. They weren’t going to ‘help me find a job’ at all. That was all on me so why did they pretend otherwise? I stormed out of the school and my favorite professor, who was witness to this exchange, actually chased me down to tell me they would do all they could. I thought it would be the last time I ever saw him. As it turned out, it wasn’t. I developed a nice relationship with him that lasted until he finaly retired a decade or so later.
My first director insisted that library school did something more that just teach an extra year or two of classes. She thought they instilled a sense of professionalism. In other words, attitude is an issue. So is your own personality and the way you present yourself. I cringe at my own attitude, my hair down to my waist, the chip on my shoulder when I graduated. It took me a career to learn to get over myself, to learn some humility.
Over the last week or so I’ve read a lot of angry comments. People are angry about their education, angry about their position, angry about their bosses, angry about their collegaues. The one overriding attitude I see is. “It’s all about me.” You’re being personally targeted because you have not achieved what you perceive as your right to achieve.
Well, I’ll tell you what. As an administrator associated with a library that hired five newly minted librarians in the last year (I still go over applications) I can tell you that if I sense an ‘Angry Librarian’ applying for a job, even a whiff of one, or a whiff of paranoia, I will come to the conclusion that here is a potential problem employee who will liklely cause nothing but grief in the future. Therefore, I will find a way to NOT hire that person. And I don’t really care what you think about that. Get over yourself like I had to.
In terms of library schools there needs to be a culling of the herd. Those schools teaching last century’s techniques need to be eliminated. They need to close. The diploma mills need to be exposed and closed. SJSU is one of them. They lie with statistics, suggesting they are much more highly ranked than they really are to naive students who are more interested in convenience than the quality of their education.
The way to do this, unfortunately, is to not hire graduates of mediocre schools nor mediocre graduates of any schools. The student bears the brunt of this, but then, the student chose the school. Faulty research should never be rewarded. No one owes you a job. If you’ve got a problem with that, talk to your library school. You’re angry with the world for not hiring you and the library school is getting off scott free. It’s both your responsibility and theirs. How about sharing some blame here? If you blame me for not hiring you, I just proved my point. If you can’t find a position as a librarian, work for a bookstore.
Mick, I can see why you wouldn’t want to hire the sort of “Angry Librarian” who can’t see past the end of their own entitled nose. As someone who’s hitting the job market again at the end of the summer (eep), what traits do you seek a whiff of as you look for potential hires?
Anger is a legitimate emotion. You’ve dreamed of a career and taken the time and money to secure the admission ticket (the MLS credential), only to have the library job market collapse under you. Who wouldn’t be angry? I know I would be, especially if I had been told about the “looming shortage” prior to my enrollment.
When a major-league ballplayer strikes out in a close game with runners in scoring position, he kicks the water cooler in the dugout and then suits up and tries again the next day. I recommend whatever is the librarian’s equivalent of kicking the water cooler. As long as you don’t damage people or others’ property, it’s therapeutic! Suggestions welcome.
But if you’re newly minted and looking, listen to Mick, who learned the hard way: Now is not the time to bring an attitude to the interview. It never is.
Give the cooler a good whack and then go in with the idea that you want to convey just how much you want to work there.
I can give you a couple of hints, obviously position dependent so your mileage may vary. One question I now would ask after this is, “Why did you choose your library school?” and if the answer came back, “Because it was convenient to me.” that would raise a big red flag. That is NOT a good answer even if it’s true. Never use it.
I was once a finalist for a position in a community college. One of the questions asked of me was, “How would you help out an adjunct faculty member in preparing for his course?” The solution was sitting right in front of me and I blew it totally. I screwed up.
After the fact I figured it out. There was an overhead projector in the room. This was well before the days of PowerPoint and computers. I had first seen an overhead projector late in high school. What I should have realized is that anyone older than me may never have seen one. They were invented well before, but not in common use until late in the sixties. I should have realized that my answer should have been to instruct the faculty member in the use of transparencies, press-type, etc. all of which I knew about, but perhaps the “old guy” did not. That would have been a creative answer. So creativity is one.
Probably more impressive, though, is a candidate who has obviously thoroughly researched the library in question. You should go into an interview thoroughly familiar with the libary’s budget over the last decade, what and where its branches are, the demographic make-up of the library’s service area, major initiatives in place, the mission statement, etc. You should know how the library is financed and governed, plus any challenges the library faces. For example:
“I read in the {insert local rag here} that the library is kind of expected to build a new branch in the new Community Center, but there are some issues. One Commissioner wants the library to pay a couple million dollars in mitigation costs for new roads and pay for parking spots for the YMCA next door. Yet sitting a couple of blocks away is the empty Circuit City building. What do you think of rennovating that space? After all, it’s built already, is about the right size in square feet, and parking is in place. You wouldn’t have to deal with the Building Department. Is that a politically feasible alternative in this case? Do you think that would build political capital for the library because the library is paying attention to taxpayer costs, or spend it because the library is not playing along with what the commissioners want?”
If I ever got a question like that I would be saying, “Hot damn! Here’s someone who has done his homework! How insightful! Hallelujah!” Being well-versed in facts, figures, statistics, and issues of the library you say you want to work for is the single most important thing for you to do. It’s impressive; it’s flattering; it’s not about you. It can mitigate against any lack of experince you may have. It shows you pay attention.
Hope this helps.
It does help, Mick. I took notes. Thank you!
One thing about your comment about equipment, though, Mick. NEVER assume that the “elderly” staff at the place you are interviewing don’t know how to use technology unless they specifically say so. I could tell some horror stories of some young interviewees who did just that. Did go over to well with my 60+ boss who had been in charge of library automation, databases, our web site, a computer network and more for many years.
Mick, I completely agree with you, especially the first paragraph. I’ve interview so many times that I can pick up on the vibes or attitude pretty easily. I’ve learned to listen to my gut. If my gut warns me against hiring someone then I don’t do it. I’ve gone against my gut before and always regretted it.
Mick, I think that anger has its place in the range of human emotions. It’s a safety valve. It helps you blow off steam in the pressure cooker of life. In that sense it’s good. It’s also an honest form of communication. I would much rather have an angry person emote anger on me than to go passive aggressive. The angry person I can deal with because he/she is being honest with me. Once you spill your anger we can begin to deal with the source of the anger. It’s the folks who internalize their anger and don’t let it out who scare and annoy me. These are the passive aggressive time bombs. They seethe with anger but they hold on to it. These are the people who can turn a work place toxic over time because their anger turns to long term bitterness. Give me someone with an honest temper anyday over someone who holds it in forever. Get mad, get over it, and move on is a good way to deal with life’s disappointments and perceived injustices.
Sure, anger is a legitimate emotion. It exists. The question I think you have to ask yourself is, “Is this person angry because he didn’t get his way like a two year old who believes the world revolves around himself? Or is this an anger at a perceived injustice in the world that can be called legitimate?” In other words, is this person throwing a tantrum, or does he have a legitimate beef?
Even though I may disagree with the latter, I can still sympathize and understand it. However, the former is a product of immaturity for which I have little use. I don’t want the former in the workforce because they will simply be looking for another excuse to become angry.
Mick, I disagree. When someone vents anger we know there is an issue. We can address the issue. Maybe the issue is valid; maybe it isn’t. Doesn’t matter. We look at the issue. Decide if it is valid and work toward a solution. If the issue is not valid, we move on. If the angry person doesn’t move on then he/she is a child who needs to grow up. May or may not happen. I will repeat, I would much rather deal with a angry outburst than with a passive/aggressive jerk.
We’re not talking an angry outburst here that one “gets over.” We’re talking “angry” as a way of life, as a response to any stress at all, as a perpetual state and as an immature reaction. You’re suggesting anger results in some sort of catharsis, after which people can “begin to heal.” I’m suggesting lots of folks never go through those stages and present a hazard to the work environment.
I’m also suggesting that much of the outwardly-directed anger is a result of refusing to take any responsibility for having made the decisions that placed said angry persons in their situations in the first place. I do not believe people will be on the “road to healing” until they can accept responsibility for creating their own reality.
Mick, okay. I think we are in agreeance. The perpetually angry guy that you describe is the same sort of species as the passive aggressive jerk that I describe.
Another voice, another point of view. I retired in 1999 after 44 years of library work in public libraries up and down the state of California. I’m still volunteering at my local branch. Needless to say I found library work rewarding and satisfying. I graduated from Library School in 1953, and what I gained there was a solid knowledge of reference, reader’s advisory and (yes) cataloging (call it bibliographic control, if you will).
Our local library system suffered for 3 1/2 years of a Director who decided that books no longer matter, it was all on the Internet. She devastated a rich collection, noted for its depth. She decimated the material budget in favor of computers. She’s gone now, thank goodness, but so are the books.
The City is in desperate straits. Funding is at an all time low. Many of the professional staff have taken “golden handshakes” and retired. About 2 years ago, a recent MLIS graduate was hired for our Branch. A personable, enthusiastic young man, who had no library experience, and not a clue. I have mentored before, so I tried to help him with reference interviews, etc. He had no idea how to use the library catalog, or what he could find there. He learned, and thanked me. But it left me with one real question. What do they teach in Library School these days? Nothing basic to library work, that’s for sure.
pmt…thanks for making what must have been a sad comment for you. You bring up an interesting point about the director who disdained books. That director left a gap in your library that can never be closed. This is precisely what I am worried about only with staff as well as with books. With all the staff cuts, will libraries ever be able to recover even when times get better?
Although I’ve always been an avid reader, I never took the time to delve into the mystery genre. So I’ve been trying to read along with you, Will, in your current endeavor. Sadly, the fiction and/or mystery collection is so badly decimated that it has been a real challenge. A couple of years ago the City Council thought that the Library should be a “revenue source” for the City’s general fund. Since then they started charging $5. for an interlibrary loan, whether request was successful or not. After much soul searching, I have bought a Kindle to try to have access of sorts to the titles I want.
Unfortunately for some institutions it IS all about the money. Very few librarians are in a position to give big bucks to their alma maters.
A number of us tied very hard to save the excellent library school at a university hereabouts. (I won’t name names, but their football program has been hit with sanctions by the NCAA.) I worked on a fundraiser for the school (not the one I received my MLS from),and we were lucky to get pledges of $5 from the alumni we contacted. P.S. It didn’t work, and the school closed anyway.
As for schools giving false hopes: Do law schools tell their students they will get a job? (True, they have to pass the bar exam.) How about medical, nursing, engineering, and divinity schools? No one is guaranteed a free ride.
Sue, you are correct. Academic sustainability in the current economic climate comes down to money. Since you brought up the football issue at USC, let me bring up what is happening to basic college conference alignments. They are being torn apart because the universities are all desperate for more revenue. Say goodbye to the Pac 10 as we know it.
My library school closed it’s doors in the 1980s, a few years after I graduated. If memory serves me correctly, the university also shut down two other female dominated degree programs at the same time. We don’t get paid well, meaning we are not influential enough as alums to stop the closures – especially if the program has a nice big endowment to suck up and use to bolster the general fund. I was disgusted. Although I support library education when possible, even though they reopened the school a few years ago, that program will never get a penny of my hard earned money.
Don’t get me started on the conference realignment. Nebraska in the Big 10, sacrilege.
Mary Ellen, at first the upheaval in college conferences depressed and angered me. Then I thought…no, this is good…the colleges are finally showing us what their “sports” are all about. It’s not about building character; it’s not about developing student athletes. It’s about money. Always has been; always will be. College football is one less thing to pay attention to now for me. More time to read!
Mary Ellen T. — Ah, sounds like Denver. Once one of the top programs.
Another question: Sacrilegious for whom? Fans of Nebraska or fans of the Big 10? (Which now has 12, but never mind that.) College football strikes me as utterly corrupt. Back in the 30s the Ivy League deemphasized football because of its baleful influence, and the Jesuit colleges and universities did the same, for the same reason. Yes, Marquette U. and Loyola of Chicago once played big-time football!
I say end intercollegiate sports, terminate all athletic scholarships, and run first rate intramural sports programs. At my college we had an intramural tackle football program and it was great fun.
Hear, hear!!
And if I now write “Go Sun Devils!” in reference to my school’s having made the College World Series for a second year in a row, I’d be demonstrating the problem with college sports. Lots of people liked their colleges and universities, and for most being a fan of their sports is the only way they preserve their identification with, and connection to, the alma mater.
On a much lesser scale, volume counts in libraries used to serve somewhat the same purpose: We’re Stanford and we have five million, but you have only two million…. Neener, neener!
Surely there must be a better, less expensive, more productive way than spectator sports to demonstrate connection and loyalty to one’s school.
I grew up in Nebraska – college football is the one thing that ties the entire state together. You lived for the game with Oklahoma. Then the Southwest Conference disintegrated and the Big 8 became the Big 12 and the yearly Nebraska-Oklahoma game was history. Now the Big 12 is the Big 10, but can’t be because there is already a Big 10, which now has 12 teams. The President of Fresno State is getting a lot of grief for not doing more to get us in a better conference. Nobody seems to care that he’s done good things for CSUF academically. Ugh.
I ran into a bunch of Nebraska fans at the Minneapolis Airport maybe ten years ago. They were the nicest fans I have ever talked to. They have a sophisticated knowledge of the game of football, and they respect other traditions. I hated to see the Big 8 and the SWC merge. As you say, it diluted old rivalries. I just can’t see Nebraska fitting into the Big Integer Conference. I do think they will regret the move. It is all about money and that leads to corruption. Look at the mess USC is in. You are right. Fresno State needs to appreciate what their President has done for them academically. BTW…is Michael Gorman still there?
Michael retired about 3 years ago, maybe? He’s in Chicago, teaching at Dominican, I think.
One last comment re:college athletics. I still think these big sports colleges should just be honest and offer a degree in athletic performance. That’s what many of those students are there for – especially in football, basketball and baseball. My undergrad college offered degrees in vocal performance. At least with a degree in athletic performance coaches as faculty and scholarships would make more sense.
Actually, hire rates at 6 months and 1 year after graduation are one of the criteria used to rank law schools. I know that when my spouse was looking at law schools (as a nontraditional student in his 40s), that was a key factor for him in indicating the quality of the school and the reputation of its graduates.
Sometimes we are so very myopic. I just came across this on slashdot:
“This article attempts to explain why the US is struggling in its competition with other countries in the realm of scientific advancement. ‘It’s not insufficient schooling or a shortage of scientists. It’s a lack of job opportunities. Americans need the reasonable hope that spending their youth preparing to do science will provide a satisfactory career.’ I can hardly believe that somebody actually understands the present situation. It continues, ‘The current approach — trying to improve the students or schools — will not produce the desired result, the experts predict, because the forces driving bright young Americans away from technical careers arise elsewhere, in the very structure of the US research establishment. For generations, that establishment served as the world’s nimblest and most productive source of great science and outstanding young scientists. Because of long-ignored internal contradictions, however, the American research enterprise has become so severely dysfunctional that it actively prevents the great majority of the young Americans aspiring to do research from realizing their dreams.’”
Slasdot article here: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/06/14/1819251
Original article here: http://www.miller-mccune.com/science/the-real-science-gap-16191/
What disturbs me most about online programs and the job outlook is that I see 2 things as key to your chances of landing a job once you have your shiny new degree. The first is some type of relevant experience, and the second is a willingness to go where the jobs are. It took me 3 months to find a job after graduation back in 1983. I applied for anything remotely of interest, pretty much anywhere in the country. The two interviews I landed were because I had a work study job in government documents while in library school. I had experience in an area that could set me apart from the pack.
People who go to library school never having worked in a library, and who don’t get a library job or even a substantial internship while attending, are going to have a tough time. People who are attending library school online because they are tied to one geographic area are facing nearly insurmountable odds. And it’s not just a problem with online programs. When I was in Minnesota I wondered where the jobs would be for students enrolled at Dominican’s distance program there. Most of them didn’t want to leave the Twin Cities. While there were a lot of potential employers, it was a desirable place to live. Any entry level position had hundreds of applicants. When you aren’t willing to go away to get those first 2-3 crucial years of experience you’ve hobbled yourself right out of the gate.
Some of the jobs will come back. Some new jobs will be created. Whether they are professional jobs will depend on our library administrators. If they fight for professionals, then the jobs will be filled that way. We have to make the case, and sadly, too many of our library directors have undercut the profession by pulling the professionals off the front lines to do “more important”, but less visible work. This really bugs me, because the way you learn to be a top notch reference librarian is to work with top notch reference librarians out there on the front line. No one benefits when the reference desk is staff entirely by support staff. Librarians and support staff need to work in partnership. One can’t replace the other.
Oh, and did I mention I have a BA in history, among other things? I could get a masters in history at any number of universities. Are historians beating themselves up wondering if they should be enrolling new students when there are no jobs? Hasn’t stopped them for the last 50 years.
Mary Ellen, this killed me. I’m a an MLS student (this is my second Master’s, the first in Sociology) and I am in my second to last semester. I don’t have any library experience. I am a mother of three and I work full time as a professional (albeit at a non-profit) and my family couldn’t afford to take the cut in pay so that I could work in a library. I’ve been told over and over by profs at my school that no experience won’t be a hindrance to me finding a job, especially because I have such strong non-profit management, grant writing and programming skills.
Is that all a lie? I’m lucky, I have a job I really like right now, even if it’s not the job I dream of as a librarian. I am constrained by geography and family obligations. Will I find myself working full-time in my current job and part-time at a library as a non-professional with an MLS to 1) pay back the loans on what is increasingly looking like a bogus degree and 2) get enough experience to even get a look at some point?
Off to do some MLS homework that I am SO not motivated to do at this point…
Ohmama — Grant-writing and programming experience would certainly have given you an edge in a normal library job market. It’s just that right now there’s not much out there, because so very many libraries are in contraction mode. Where I am, in metro Phoenix, I can count almost 200 library jobs that have disappeared since 2008, and these are cutbacks I personally know about. I’ve probably missed another 50 or 100. Your prof wasn’t lying so much as having been out of touch with what is happening in the world of working librarians. If we get enough of an economic revival to expand local tax revenues, and if libraries can recover some of what they’ve lost and start offering jobs again, then maximize the experience you’ve been getting at your nonprofit, especially the grant-application skills. It’s going to take patience.
Joe…you make a very, very good point. The library schools and the mainstream library media are not getting the full story of library downsizing. Yes, they are reporting the systems that are laying off hundreds at a time, but they are not computing the drip, drip, drip of downsizing…the hiring freezes, the incentivized retirements where there are no replacements, and the general attrition due to nickel and dime budget cuts over a multiple year period. These losses are largely invisible unless you look closely, or unless you actually use libraries and find out no one knows anything.
ohmama- You have grant writing skills. That is a precious commodity in libraries, especially right now. You are willing to take on management tasks, also sadly rare among those coming out of library schools these days. If you live in an area with a decent job market, you probably will land a good job eventually if you honestly play up those strengths when you apply. It may take awhile though. The positions I see coming open right now are upper administration and systems, because they are deemed essential. I suspect most of your classmates with no library experience are not in as strong of a position as you are.
I don’t think it’s valid to compare a BA in history to an MLS. As will pointed out eloquently elsewhere on this blog, education for the love of a subject is never a waste, but library science is more of a trade skill degree. The vast majority of people going into it are doing so solely for a job. Not so with history (I’m an archivist, and know many people with either or both degrees.) Do library science schools have students in their programs working in other (lucrative) professions or who have completely retired the way history programs do?
Since we’ve been on an extended riff (or rip) on jobs and workplaces, perhaps now is a good time to point Unwinders to this Hallmark eCard, “Interview with an Honest Boss”:
http://tinyurl.com/2ekqeg8
There’s a little promo lead-in you can wait to finish, or skip. I’m still surprised that Hallmark, that famed dispenser of “Today is the first day of the rest of your life!” sunniness and schmaltz, has had this grimly humorous, cynical eCard up and running for a couple of years now. You don’t have to personalize it or send it, btw — you can just click on any of the four parts of the “interview.”
I am not as pessimistic as you are, Will, about library schools in general. I have seen too many librarians who have graduated from library schools — real ones — who do not love books. If we get thrown back to an era when book lovers and serious readers run libraries I don’t think we will be as bad off as we are now. I’ve lost count of the good books the librarians running our public library have thrown away — they are using some kind of software but won’t let the employees tell the patrons what it is. Whatever it is, it shows a hatred of quality books. The thing I fear is if the replacement person for the professional librarians is not a thinker & book lover but just another 20-something who thinks no one over 30 and no book can teach them anything. If that is what is going to happen, then we should worry.
In the libraries I personally know, weeding has pretty much become driven by circ numbers — if it hasn’t circulated so many times in such and such a time period, it’s gone, regardless of the item’s condition, intrinsic merit, timelessness, or chance that its presence may delight a patron or two in the long run (fulfilling the “long tail,” to use current jargon).
A brute-force approach certainly makes weeding faster and easier. A volunteer, once she figured out what was going on, commented to me that no one destroys books on the scale that librarians do.
Ouch.
Confession: There were some titles I treasured that I knew my colleagues would whack if they got their hands on them. So I’d periodically check ‘em out so they’d rack up the necessary circs to keep ‘em on the shelf. Not sure if they caught on to that. I’d try to push my favorites on patrons, too.
(Guilty as charged.)
As a retired librarian who knows how weeding is being done in some places, I’ve given thought to forming a semi-secret group, kind of like the Freemasons, who were all about Enlightenment, that would provide a long list of titles of important books to its members, who would make sure to run up the circs on them at their libraries, to keep them from getting killed by the librarians.
The librarians would catch on, of course, when the sudden and strange popularity of unusual titles would stick up out of the data. New ruses would have to be orchestrated by the society. The librarians and the society for saving books would end up in a sort of intellectual arms race.
This could be a novel.
Joe – Love your idea!!! That said, I have visited a number of small libraries when visiting relatives, and a lot of these libraries have a lot of junky old titles crammed onto overloaded shelves. Now that patrons can use their cards to visit bigger libraries in the system, they start to see what a well-managed library collection can look like, and lose respect for their home library. That’s a long way of saying that you also have to watch out for the librarians who WON’T weed because having full shelves “looks better.”
There is certainly a fine art to weeding, a delicate balance between too much and not enough. I’ve been checking my favorites out for years (to myself, to my kids), so that nobody is tempted to weed them! Now that I’m not working a library, this is more difficult, since these books occasionally get lost in my house
but I’m planning to do lots of reorganizing this summer, so maybe I’ll be able to continue saving books again soon.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see some library schools close like they did in the eighties. Like it or not, the online degree programs are here to stay. That said, I can’t understand why anyone would be interested in one unless they were already working in a library setting and not able to attend traditional classes either due to scheduling, family, or location. If you’re learning on the job as well, I don’t see any reason why an online degree can’t be as good as one earned at a brick and mortar school. Looking back, I had some great opportunities as I was entering the profession. I had already worked in my college library as a student, and after graduation worked as a paraprofessional at another local college. If I could have made a living as a paraprofessional I probably would have stopped there, but I went on to the University of Tennessee. There I had a part-time job in the libraries of Oak Ridge National Library. I came out of library school with the theory as well as practical experience. There weren’t many of the academic jobs I was looking for (the ones I applied for had hundreds of other applicants), but I landed one where I’d worked as a paraprofessional. I liked the work, but hated living in the town where I’d grown up. I moved to Brooklyn where I earned the princely sum of 26K a year. My standard of living was no better than what I’d had in library school, but I learned a lot and advanced quickly. I ended up spending 13 years in public libraries, which gave me an attitude toward service that my elementary school colleagues appreciate. I don’t see library schools disappearing, although they are going to keep changing. Books are probably going to be with us at least through the end of my working life, even if they change. If most librarians are replaced with people who have no clue how to navigate through the myriad of information sources, library patrons are going to be plenty mad. They will either stop going to the library or raise hell about the poor service. We’ll probably see some of both, hopefully enough of the latter to keep libraries going. Finally, I’m not much of a book person anymore. I still enjoy helping my students find just the book they need or want, but sitting and reading a book from cover to cover is something I rarely do these days. I’m surrounded by books at work, so opening one at home is usually the last thing I want to do. I may get to that point with the computer as well. Library schools- stop it with the librarian shortage crap. In my experience the only places with librarian shortages were the libraries not paying a living wage (such as the 3 New York systems Elissa and I left in the late nineties- I’m making more as a school librarian in DC than the two of us combined made as branch managers in NY). Be honest about the opportunities out there and what it takes to snag a job. That’s part of educating the next generation.
Steve, I believe within 3 years that there will be no more traditional classroom LIS programs. Everything will have gone on-line because of the economics involved both for the LIS schools and the students.
I think the basic issue that the original poster was addressing is that library schools have, for a while now, promoted their programs on the very inaccurate claim that there there is a “librarian shortage.” Anyone who has graduated with an MLS in the last few years has learned the hard way, that while those articles about librarian shortages look great in print, the job market shows absolutely no shortage of librarians. Our profession is supposed to be based on providing accurate information. It’s not good for us in my opinion, to have library schools, of all places, promoting themselves based on ideas that just aren’t accurate. If there really isn’t a need for so many library schools, then there just isn’t a need for them. Maybe it’s good for an MLS to become a specialized degree that only a few schools offer. No academic program should sell a false impression of the job market to students, let alone a library school. It might keep the program alive for a few years, but it’s inaccurate and deceptive.
Jeff, I agree. Library schools, unlike libraries, operate on a cost recovery basis. In order to pay for faculty, facilities, and equipment, they must keep enrollment at level where revenues are equal to expenses. This is why library schools are quickly moving to an on-line model. On-line has two big benefits when it comes to the bottom line: 1)it is cheaper to provide than a classroom approach, and 2) it is a student magnet because geography and work schedules are not conflicting factors. Right now, on-line is the goose that is laying golden eggs. It is what will keep library schools alive for awhile until the truth about the librarian job market catches up to them. When that happens, the profession will have to make some very tough choices about the certification of professional librarians.
Will, there seems to be a myth out there that librarians are answering the same kind of questions they did in 1980 (pre internet) The fact is most are answering questions that do not require a masters degree. If you look at the data you will see this. And no I don’t count telling people how to print and showing them how to find a book from the catalog, requiring an MLS. So public libraries need to use their librarians in different ways. I am not saying we don’t need librarians. But we do need to accept that traditional reference service is gone, get over it and redeploy staff. In my library they teach classes, they go out into the community conducting bilingual storytimes and they write grants. Unless you are a large research library, many are wasting their degree sitting on that reference desk. Shelly
Shelly, you may be right. My current thinking is that in the future the role of the professional librarian will be to train paraprofessional staff to do many of the traditional duties of the librarian. Of course that trainer model is based on the fact that there will be any library schools left in five years to produce professional librarians. I am intrigued by your point that the difficulty of reference questions has diminished since 1980. Why do you think that is?
Will, I did a study at two different library systems, which ranked the level of questions being asked based upon the Warner model. In both very different systems the results were the same. 80% of the questions did not require the skills of a professional librarian. Now I never did this study in 1980 so I don’t have benchmarking data, but anecdotally I did work on the floor from the 80s thru the 2000′s and I can tell you that there was a marked difference in both the number and difficulty of questions pre and post internet. I know there is a theory out there that the questions are harder now because patrons can answer their own easier questions via the internet but I don’t have data to verify if indeed the 20% of questions librarians do answer are harder. I would say however that we only need 20% of librarians time to do reference work regardless. Thanks for your interest. Shelly
I received my MLIS in May 2008. I have yet to get a Librarian position. I work as a Library Media Tech at a middle school which requires applicants have a high school diploma. I feel very fortunate to have this position (I am working in a library) which is part-time (25 hours per week) since I live in San Diego. I still apply for jobs all over the country. I have had interviews but no job offers. I know the economy plays a big part in my situation. I haven’t given up finding a full time Librarian position. This article and blog helps by letting me know I am not alone.
Tracy, I guess misery loves company. I certainly have a lot of empathy for you and all the other underemployed LIS grads. Keep trying. If you read this comment board closely you will notice that perseverance does pay off eventually. By the way, how are your relations with the Almighty? Divine intervention always helps.
I’m a department head at a public library. Someone from the community called me today. She had decided that she wants to become a librarian, and wanted to know if there were “a couple classes” to take. She said that she figured a couple classes would be enough, and wanted to know if I had taken a few local classes that I could recommend. She has never worked in a library, although she did help in her school media center when she was a kid. That’s the public’s perception of the value of the degree. I’ve met people who are astounded that librarians went to college, much less have a degree of any kind, including a bachelor’s.
CH…you are absolutely correct. Public perception is a big part of the battle that we are fighting in trying to get funding for professional librarian positions. To exacerbate the less than glowing opinion that the public has of us is the growing perception that Google has replaced the traditional reference librarian.
Will,
I am so glad somebody in the library field is finally addressing this issue. I graduated from SLIS at Indiana University in 2003, which I attended the first year on a full scholarship. Despite advantages such as 20+ years experience in business administration and management, as well as pursuing a course similar to “Anon,” it took me over six months to find a position, which was not in the type of library I had trained for, nor in a location I would ever have desired to live. The pay was well below the national average.
As I recall, at the end of 2004 a report on graduation-to-work rates from library schools around the country was published (sorry, but I cannot now refer you to it)for the year I graduated. Out of my class of 200-some graduates, after a year only 16 or 17 of us had found full-time professional positions. Similar statistics could be found for all of the library schools listed in the report, especially for those ranked among the best in the US.
After a couple years, I eventually ended up in a position that reflected what I pursued in library school. However, part of my success in obtaining this position was simple luck and being in the city where the position was posted, and I am still not working in the environment I had intended, or for pay that approximates ALA’s posted national average. I’m left to wonder what happened to all those others who graduated with me, but likely never found a position…
Dean…you raise a good question. If you read this comment board pretty closely you will notice some are working at Starbucks, some are working as library paraprofessionals, and some are not working at all. What a tragic waste of talent. Our libraries are bursting with patrons during this economic slump and we cannot tap into the vast reservoir of librarian talent for lack of funding.
Whoops–that comment was supposed to go to the whole article, not just the one response. My bad.
It seems to me that right now, the field is going through some growing pains, as “traditional” librarians start morphing into something else. Like it or not, times and technologies are changing, and the field has to change with it. I think the job predictions done by US News and the like are founded on looking at the profession’s past–not its future. They see that librarians are getting older as a whole (true), and project that they’re going to need to be replaced soon. This ignores trends of library funding, as well as the need for the same number of librarians. As more and more things go digital, the job roles of librarians will change, and this might well result in the need for fewer total ‘official’ librarians.
I graduated from my MLS program in 2007, and after 50 applications, I had two offers for professional jobs 3 months later. (I had started the application process while I was still in my MLS program, so the total time I was job hunting was more like 6 months.) I will say that the application process was much more stressful than all the articles I’d read ahead of time had indicated. I’ll also say that our profession is not alone in its having more graduates than jobs. At my campus, there was recently an opening for an American Literature professor.
450 people applied.
Regardless of what happens to library schools, librarians will remain a profession as long as there is a need to be filled by them. If this need remains, the schools will adapt to it accordingly. I actually just posted my thoughts about this over at my library’s blog: Check it out. I’d love to get more input and thoughts from others.
1337…great insight to what might be happening to the library profession. If indeed you are correct, and I think there is merit to your point, then let me ask you a puzzling question. Shouldn’t the brain trusts of the library schools be the first to spot this trend and respond accordingly instead of relying on what you rightly call data that is based on an obsolete paradigm? Theoretically, our best and brightest thinkers should be at the professors at library schools? I would love to get your take on my question. Thanks.
Let’s also remember that those of us, with an MLS and extensive, varied library work experience, must also compete with those who merely hold a Bachelors Degree but who manage to get the title of Librarian. I’m also outraged with my local public library who, within a 6-month period, have had 2 positions that opened but didn’t openly advertise them to external candidates. One position was in the library’s computer lab & the other was in the genealogy room. I think that, because of this “internal maneuvering”, qualified external candidates are being shut out on a regular basis & this is an all too commom & very disturbing trend. I graduated in 2004 with my MLS & I have an extensive library employment experience background but it seems as though the employers could care less. I, too, feel that I’ve been sold a bill of goods, but I also believe that employers are devaluing the MLS (in some cases) by hiring someone without the MLS over someone who spent the time & money to get the educational background that we’ve been told is necessary to become a librarian. I really feel like I was duped.
Jeannine, I am very glad that you have given us this comment. You have pinpointed one of the hidden ugly things going on in the library world today. Professional positions are being downgraded in the name of downsizing. This insidious practice has largely gone unnoticed but it is becoming quite prevalent.
I was interning in a university library and was shocked by how many librarian positions had been given to people who had never even read a LIS textbook. This is on a campus which has a library school! If the university library of a library school doesn’t even want librarians on their rosters, what should we expect from other employers?
I think the current situation is nothing new. When I was researching library schools circa 2006, before the economy tanked, I read blog posts and comments similar to these about the lack of jobs for new graduates. It scared me and made me think really hard about whether or not to get the degree. (I also watched my mother and a number of her coworkers retire from supervisory positions at an academic university, positions which were not replaced but absorbed by existing staff.)
I sympathize with those who have had a hard time finding work after receiving their MLS. But this hasn’t been my experience as a recent grad.
The outcome has been positive for myself and my classmates who took two key things to heart: get as much relevant work experience as possible while in school (working multiple student jobs and volunteering), and be VERY flexible when applying for jobs. A year after graduation, most of us are gainfully employed and it only took a few months for most of us to get hired.
My library school experience was far from perfect. But I don’t fault the school for not sitting me down to warn me about the grim reality of the job market (although I certainly don’t feel the administration hid this either). It’s probably the same in most fields these days. Savvy aspiring information professionals should do their research and know what they’re getting into before they make the commitment to get an advanced degree, and have a back-up plan in case things don’t go exactly as expected. Talk to working librarians, read job postings and blogs, and be skeptical of marketing materials from academic institutions. Don’t proceed if you aren’t willing to make at lease one major sacrifice, like moving to an undesired location for your first job or taking a non-library position.
DPL…what library school did you graduate from?
I graduated from Indiana University, Bloomington campus. I did enjoy my time there but my degree hasn’t resulted in any position in any type of library, not even with the variety of employment experience I had before I started library school.
What are your plans now?
With any luck, I’ll land a paraprofessional position for which I had a recent interview. If that doesn’t pan out, I would like to be in a position of research or I may go for a clerical position. I’ve been doing that all along but, naturally, library work would be my desired position.
I had a great experience in school, too, Will. But it took five months post graduation and a huge amount of effort to find a job, though I found a good full time professional one. By that time I would have gone anywhere for a job and so moved to a community I knew I wouldn’t like because I was running out of money to survive, and the work I managed to find here and there wasn’t paying the bills. The job was very far from what mattered to me the most, my family. I told myself that in two or three at the most years I could move back to the region where I desired to live, but there are few library jobs there or anywhere now. Soon I will be four years in a community that I don’t like and where I never wanted to live. And yet…. I had a lot of experience before going to library school, gained considerable library experience all the way through school, and was told by a number of professionals that the job market was good in the field I wanted to pursue. I graduated in 2006. If I were to have graduated today, probably wouldn’t have found any job regardless of my experience. It’s that tough out there.
So, I’m working on gaining more skills outside the profession without taking on debt, and am looking into moving into a new field if need be. I hope to stay in libraries, but I never wanted to be geographically stranded and now my director is talking about layoffs next year. It’s a shame because I’m good at what I do and love doing it.
You asked someone if they would go for the degree for the joy of learning. Most of us are not independently wealthy, and we can’t afford to do this. Please remember that the average graduate degree will come to around $30,000, which is an expensive education if no job is attached at the end, and wages are poor. If I had to do it again, I’d look for something else to do.
CH…your story is not an encouraging one. What field do you see yourself moving into?
I don’t yet, Will. And maybe I won’t have to change fields and move out of libraries. I love what I do. I just want to keep my options open in a world that is changing so rapidly so keep working to gain new skills to see where these might lead me, including becoming fluent in a second language, obtaining additional certifications, and additional tech and other skills. Perhaps these skills will put me above the pack in libraries, particularly since I have management experience and cross creative skills as well. I’ve always tried to do my best at whatever I’m doing, but I think current crises in libraries is causing me to look for options. No matter how things look, there is always SOMETHING a person can do to work toward a future goal. That’s the key really.
Get a clue, no profession has jobs not only librarians. My chemical engineering son has not gotten a job for a couple of years either. Nor have the majority of students graduating from universities.
Thanks for the info, Sarah.
[...] Manley got me started with his posts on the death of library schools, the grim job prospects out there, and the anger of librarians and students. I was recently [...]
Nothing annoys me more than these smug people telling me my problem is only negativity. When most of these people got their library jobs the main qualification was probably that you have a pulse. Now when there are thousands of applicants for every job you think you are somehow superior to the rest of us. The fact is I know that I am smarter than most of the people I have worked for…and many of those people had rotten attitutes and made everyone around them hate them because they talked to everyone as though they were mentally retarded (talk about a toxic environment). All we can do is hope that when the economy goes further down the toilet, you too will be living in your car (assuming you even still have a caar). Then you can eat all your smug words.