WILL UNWOUND #117: “Would you hire someone with an M.L.S. from Laptop U?” by Will Manley
May 20, 2010A few months ago I took a journey into the future.
I boarded a commuter train in my town of residence, Livermore, CA (about 30 miles east of San Francisco) and took the 40 minute ride to downtown San Jose, the heart of Silicon Valley. My destination was the annual meeting of the advisory board of the School of Library and Information Science at San Jose State University. It was my first meeting as a new member of the board.
Talk about an education! I quickly learned that all of San Jose’s library school courses are offered solely on an on-line basis. They have no traditional, face-to-face, in person classes. All communication is electronic. The face of the school is basically a computer screen.
To set the record straight, in the last 20 years I have not totally been wandering around in the lost world of hand stamps and card catalogs. I am aware of the fact that “distance” education and on-line learning are increasingly popular options for library school students, but I was shocked that a leading library school like San Jose had abandoned face to face, classroom education altogether.
My first reaction was one of immediate revulsion. The very word education conjures up for me an idyllic picture of students sitting in a classroom interacting with each other and with an instructor. Then there are the breaks between classes when you hang out in the coffee shop and shoot the breeze by talking about professors, grades, and homework assignments. Then you go to some more classes, possibly bump into one or two of your professors in the hallway and chat them up about today’s lecture, and then at the end of the day after you have spent several hours poring over cataloging manuals and classic reference books in the university library, it’s Miller time and the opportunity to have even more give and take with classmates and professors.
The library school I went to was a pretty tight knit group of students and teachers. We cared about each other and our individual goals, objectives, and dreams. Our professors cared about us too and helped us in any way possible. It was a special time…that last year of our young lives before we had to face the real world of work. Okay, maybe my experience was idyllic but from the many comments that you posted yesterday I don’t think it was atypical. Many of you shared similar experiences. Comment after comment makes reference to being exposed to dedicated professors who changed lives.
My second shocker of the day in San Jose was that this on-line approach is wildly successful. They have 3,000 students enrolled. Let me repeat…they have 3,000 students studying to get an MLS degree. 3,000! Are you kidding me?
Okay, after thinking about it for awhile I can understand the allure of this on-line program. There’s the financial end of it. You save a ton of money on room, board, and commuting. There is also the distance aspect. Many people are shut out of the library profession because they are not anywhere near an ALA accredited library school. On-line changes all that. You can live in Singapore and be a student or a teacher in San Jose without leaving your house.
But that still begs the question. Do you really want to go to Computer Screen U? Actually in the not too distant future, you might not have a choice. Given the success of the San Jose program it seems to me to be just a matter of time before all the other library schools go completely online. How can you compete with San Jose if you don’t? For all I know, net generation kids might even prefer an on-line approach.
If graduate library schools continue to build upon the on-line model, our profession will soon be infused with hundreds and then thousands of new librarians who will fully understand the conveniences and economies of providing informational and educational resources solely online, and this my good unwinding friends, is going to have earth shattering ramifications for the future of the library.
Will the library continue to be a place? Well… we all thought library school was a place, didn’t we?
Today, ye merry band of unwinders, we have much to discuss and debate about the future of librarianship. The basic question is what impact will the rise of on-line MLS degrees have on libraries. Please consider these questions as you formulate your comments:
Would you want to go to an on-line university MLS degree program?
If you were hiring a librarian in the electronic resources area wouldn’t you prefer someone with an on-line degree simply because that person directly understands what’s involved in delivering and receiving on-line services?
Do you think that the rise of the on-line MLS degree will result in a new librarian paradigm, one that is more technically than humanistically oriented?
Would you hire someone with an on-line degree for a children’s librarian position?
Without face to face classroom experiences, won’t on-line students lack sufficient preparation in the area of human relations skills? Is this an important issue for the formation of future library leaders?
Will on-line graduates be more insistent in being given telecommuting opportunities on the job?
Was your library school experience similar to mine in that I learned as much in the coffee shop with my classmates and professors as in the classroom?
Is the on-line degree development a good thing for the future of librarianship?
Anything else you want to talk about in this subject area?
UNWINDERS: REMEMBER…THIS BLOG IS A GROUP EFFORT. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. ON-LINE COMMUNICATION IS FUN, IS IT NOT? WHO NEEDS A CLASSROOM…REALLY!
Will, I am one of those online students at SJSU SLIS right now. I have just finished my second semester. I am not young, so I certainly hesitated before enrolling in this program, but I have to say that so far it has been wonderful. Yes, I would prefer to learn in a classroom, but since this was not an option, I have found that learning in a “distance” environment has not been nearly as intimidating or as isolating as I thought it would be. My instructors have been particularly wonderful, and I was fortunate to meet one of them while she was in town for the convocation last weekend.
I have learned a lot so far, both from the instructors and the students. We have great discussions (much like you do with this blog). We even conduct group work, although it is challenging in an online environment.
Maybe I am an old softie, but I still believe that, regardless of the means of education, librarians will be attracted to the job because they love people and helping them locate resources, and that computers are only one of the means to access some of those resources. I truly hope that books will continue to be offered as a technology well into the future for those of us who prefer them, and I certainly hope that no one will discriminate against me when I apply for a job as a children’s librarian simply because I will have an online degree. I have worked just as hard (if not harder) in my online courses as I did in my traditional classes long ago. I do miss the comraderie of a traditional classroom, but I am happy I bit the bullet and enrolled in this program.
Pat, thanks for kicking things off here so positively. I have heard from other students that the San Jose program is quite rigorous and there is a school of thought that it actually requires more of students than the old traditional classroom program did. I do have a couple of questions for you Pat: 1)Has the program given you a much greater confidence in your ability to master the use of on-line resources and in your ability to apply that knowledge in a practical library setting? 2) The children’s courses I took in library school required me to do actual storytelling and other programming directly with children. This was incredibly valuable experience. How does your on-line program accomplish that part of children’s services? Thanks Pat. It’s great to have MLS students actively participating in this blog. We definitely need your point of view.
Well, I have to say I appreciate how kind you are in your replies, Will.
In answer to your questions:
1) So far I have gained confidence in working with on-line resources, mainly out of sheer necessity. I have not yet taken coursework that makes me feel I’ve mastered any of this online work. I would prefer to take the less technological classes (such as the children’s literature class you describe). I have only volunteered in my children’s school libraries so far, so I haven’t had the chance to put any of my online learning into practice.
2) Although I have not yet taken the children’s programming course yet, from the syllabus I see that observations of storytimes are required. I see from your description how valuable it would be to actually be the storyteller. As part of the degree I hope to get an internship where I would be able to have such an experience, but no, it does not appear to be part of the class now.
In answer to Ellen’s comment about spending time with excellent collections, I envy that. I do use my library assignments as a great excuse to spend lots of time at different libraries, where I admit I prefer the physical reference books to the online databases. I can’t imagine wanting to telecommute–my goal is to work in a real brick-and-mortar library with other people.
Thanks for not blasting me out of the water.
Pat, I’m totally open to learning the pros and cons of on-line education. Yes, I am 60 years old and have a certain vision of what education has meant to me and how much I benefitted from direct daily dealings with my profs. That’s definitely a bias on my part that I freely admit. On the other hand, if even 1 year ago somebody would have told me that I would start a blog and have a grand old time with it, I would have told them to stop drinking the kool-aid. This blog has taught me tons about connecting with a wide diversity of people and ideas on-line. My objective here is to throw out issues and learn from the responses. I have this weird notion that it will keep my mind from fossilizing in my old age. That’s why I’m especially keen on MLS students participating in this blog. You have much to teach me and others. Thanks, Pat, and good luck with your education and career.
P.S. Sorry for misspelling camaraderie. It’s not a reflection on distance learning!
1. Would you want to go to an on-line university MLS degree program? NO! By attending UT Austin I had the opportunity to work with one of the finest collections in the U.S. I believe working with an honest-to-god library collection is one of the best ways to learn good library practices. The student in Podunk doesn’t have that opportunity.
2. If you were hiring a librarian in the electronic resources area wouldn’t you prefer someone with an on-line degree simply because that person directly understands what’s involved in delivering and receiving on-line services?
No – libraries have been moving toward electronic resources for years. An online degree wouldn’t automatically make someone better qualified. Besides, if you’re living in the 21st century lots of our lives are wrapped up in online/electronic services – I’m thinking TurboTax, banking, Amazon, iTunes, etc. Electronic delivery is part of life.
3. Do you think that the rise of the on-line MLS degree will result in a new librarian paradigm, one that is more technically than humanistically oriented?
No – what I see is the overselling of the degree. Get your degree online, get a job immediately!! Lots of librarians are retiring!! I am appalled at the number of people working on an MLIS in my community. There are no jobs and, thus far, the applicants we’ve had with online degrees haven’t been able to compete with the applicants with in-residence degrees. Why? They have zero to offer us in the way of experience because … there are no jobs in this city for them to gain some experience.
4. Would you hire someone with an on-line degree for a children’s librarian position?
Umm … there would probably be better qualified applicants with in-residence degrees.
5. Without face to face classroom experiences, won’t on-line students lack sufficient preparation in the area of human relations skills? Is this an important issue for the formation of future library leaders?
I would hope online students aren’t living in a vacuum of their own making! But I’ve got to say, many of the students at our university would benefit by more social interaction and learning some human relations skills. They’ve been so “loved” by their parents they are unable to cope with some of life’s simpler problems. Too many of our youngsters haven’t been allowed to fail and the problems I see at the university must be going with them to the workplace. Yikes!!
6. Will on-line graduates be more insistent in being given telecommuting opportunities on the job?
Perhaps … if they’re in technical services. You work with the public, you need to be in the library – we need every body we can get to handle the walk-in business.
7. Was your library school experience similar to mine in that I learned as much in the coffee shop with my classmates and professors as in the classroom?
I learned more from my co-workers at the university library than I did library school professors. I learned lots from my classmates. And not a lot of it dealt with library science!
8. Is the on-line degree development a good thing for the future of librarianship?
I believe if you have a very particular ability or degree, an online degree can be a good option. One of our chemistry professors asked me about a library degree. I believe she could get a library position as a subject specialist far more easily than the person with a BA in one of the humanities. It can also a good option for teachers who want to become school librarians
Anything else you want to talk about in this subject area?
The biggest problem I see in my area with the online MLIS – many of these people are working on degrees and will never get hired as librarians. Why? They want to stay here and will not consider relocating. People attending in-residence programs tend to relocate for a job because they relocated to attend school. It’s easier to get that first job when you’re willing to move to the back of beyond or lower your expectations. There is a finite number of libraries in this town – there are far more people with the online degree than there will ever be positions. The “flood of retirements” people have predicted? It doesn’t seem to be happening, mostly because early retirement isn’t an option for most of us.
Ellen…great job helping us get started with this issue. You’ve injected some things into the discussion that I neglected. First, you are right…what do on-line students do for access to a first rate university library. That was a big plus in my library eduction. Some might counter that many of the traditional book resources that we explored are no longer as important as they once were. Anyway…you’ve raised an intriguing point. Second, you have brought up the job market. I totally forgot about that. What are the thousands of folks lining up for on-line degrees going to do to an already dismal librarian job market? Third, you also bring up the retirement issue. I’m sure most of the library schools are recruiting students on the basis of projected retirement figures for baby boomers. What they didn’t factor was a 401K crash, an endless recession, and the skyrocketing cost of health insurance for retirees. Thanks, Ellen, for keeping us real here.
Thanks for the comments, Will. I worried about seeming too doom and gloom-ish.
I would happily retire early if I could but the big sticking point is medical insurance. Unlike all of my present co-workers I will be receiving a pension from a previous employer. Once I’m eligible for Medicare, I’ll retire. Some of my co-workers say they’ll be working until at least 70.
Ellen, I just got the notice today of the dramatic increase in my monthly medical insurance bill. It’s downright scary.
You might consider catastrophe insurance as an alternative. That’s where you have, say, a $5000 deductible before insurance kicks in. My reasoning is as follows: If I were to pay for ‘full coverage’ the same as I enjoyed when my employer paid for it, I would be out close to $7500 per year. With catastrophe insurance I pay $2500 per year. So far I’ve saved $30,000. Even if I did get seriously ill, I still pay $5000 before the insurance kicks in, but I break even for the year compared to paying for the full ride. If you are willing to take some of the risk on yourself, it can be cheaper.
Besides, isn’t Obamacare going to make things all better now?
Mick, you must have a secret camera in my home office. I’ve spent the afternoon doing those calculations about catastrophic.
The $6,000+ I pay out in medical costs and insurance each year is worth it – I am not going to lose my sight to glaucoma if I can help it. Living dangerously doesn’t appeal to me.
I don’t see how taking part of the financial risk can be construed as living dangerously. You are still covered, but you only pay if you get sick, and then you break even. It’s a win-win for the consumer.
I wouldn’t want to do any program online, but that’s because of my learning style. I need to be immersed in a physical classroom and interacting in person or my attention, she wanders.
I think any technical orientation resulting from online degrees will be mitigated by experience over time; we don’t exist to serve machines. We serve people. If we stop doing that well, to paraphrase that one Chicago White Sox announcer, “We gone!”
I didn’t have time to do the coffee shop with friends thing because of my various jobs, and I can’t do the bar thing for the reasons I mentioned in an earlier comment, so no, I didn’t have that experience. I’m glad that you did, though!
Jess, coffee shops have become very important gathering places in our on-line world. A coffee shop is a place to go to be out in the real world. It’s easy to get too isolated at home in front of a computer. In a university setting, I think coffee shops are just as important as classrooms.
As a recently graduated MLIS who did my coursework fully online at Drexel’s iSchool, I often wonder if I should reveal this fact when I interview. Will it be considered a positive or a negative? Thus far, I have revealed it (all three times…and I’m willing to move anywhere for a job! Someone just give me a job!) because I feel I should be upfront with my prospective employer. However, it wasn’t just my MLIS that I did online; I also did my BA online from a traditional university. I realize that some people may frown upon the online format, but for me it was perfect. During my undergraduate and graduate careers, I moved from Arizona, to China, to Washington to Idaho to Florida. I would never have been able to finish my education if online classes weren’t an option. When I did an internship last summer, the fact that I was an online student didn’t hamper me in anyway. I was just as qualified to and able to do the work as the other, more traditional interns.
Tina…by all means be totally honest in your interviews. One of the things I think we are going to discover today in this blog is that the overwhelming number of current MLS students are doing some if not all of their degree requirements on-line. Are there some interviewers who would be biased against an on-line candidate? I don’t know, but we will probably find that out here too. To me it’s all about getting the best person for the job. One of the things you have to understand about the hiring process is that no one wants to make a mistake. Management is all about hiring great people and letting them do their jobs with a minimum of interference. Good hires make managers look good. Bad hires make them look bad. It’s a pretty simple equation. Thanks for participating in this blog. We need the student perspective.
Tina makes a good point though. On a resume, an ALA-Accredited MLS/MLIS is all that is needed in most jobs, regardless of whether or not it was achieved in person or online. During the interview, it may come out that the applicant took classes online instead of in person. Personally, I don’t see that the classroom mode makes that much of a difference in employees.
I, too, am of the “old school”, having attended library school in person, and having to pick up stakes and move from one part of the country to another to do it. It used to be that graduates ended up settling in the location where they received their terminal degree. I have ended up back in the state where I received my MLS, but it was not by a direct route. I’m not sure that rule has to apply anymore with distance learning.
Here’s something else to think of…distance learning offers working library staff the opportunity they might otherwise have to forgo if they had to attend in person. As we have determined in previous discussions, some of those working paraprofessionals are the best advocates for library service you will encounter. By all means, let us encourage them!
I graduate in 2000 with my MLIS. The degree was a combination of online and in person. One of my current employees did her primarily online. She is exceptional. If I was going to Library School today, an online MLS degree program would be my first choice.
When hiring IT, Children’s, or other Librarian staff how they got their degree is less of an issue, than what skills they can show me in the application, resume, work and school experience.
The human aspect need to be part of the degree. Practicums, observations, internships should be integrated into these programs. In addition, there should be online discussions with the instructors and students.
Remember human interaction should be part of their current jobs, personal lives, online social lives. Question have you ever taken an online course. Most of mine online courses in library school and in the CPLA program required human interaction.
Some of us work well in a variety of learning settings. I thrive online. If you miss something the professor said, you can replay it later. If you don’t understand something in class you ask the instructor or your classmates online and they respond. In sit down classes, before the age of the computer, I was luck if someone would give me their notes.
Online rocks.
Dar…On line does have its advantages in terms of getting instant reactions to issues from a wide variety of people. What’s happening on this blog tonight is a perfect example. On-line rocks, but so does person to person!
The MLIS program I am hoping to start in the Fall is at the FSU Library and Information Science program, which has been a well respected library science program for a long time. Yet, it is entirely online.
There are pro and cons to every side of this, as you’ve seen already: wider and more varied pool of graduates, less exposure to actual /collections/, etc. etc. Personally, I’m going for the old-school theory that “you get back what you put in to it” – students who are there to check the box because someone told them Library Science is an industry that is always hiring are going to fall out of the program or end up at the lower rungs of the career ladder for life. They won’t really care and it will show.
Me, I’m looking at a specialization (museum/archive management) and I’m willing to move ANYWHERE ANYTIME JUST ASK ME!!!! (especially if you are cute and single…oh wait, that’s a different topic completely…*wink*) and I love library science so I am going to ROCK THAT PROGRAM and tell everyone: Will Manley sent me!
<3
Hey Kim, send me a picture of your kid sister.
Oh, and the MLIS program I will be taking online? Is offered by the university in the same city I *live* in. I’ll be taking classes online with my professors literally five minutes away by car. Now to me, that is kind of weird.
Kim, that reminds me of a boss I had. He hated face to face conversation so instead of talking to me he would send me e-mails from 10 feet away. Can you say dysfunctional?
Getting an online degree is kind of like pursuing an online relationship. You may think it is a real relationship, but those pictures she sent you are of her kid sister and the guy is ten years older than he says he is and balding. Only if you’ve never had a relationship at all would you think the online one was real. Would you consent to marry someone you had never physically met? Good luck with that.
Having said that, we recently hired an online grad. (My Spousal Unit still works at the library I spent 26 years with so I’m still kind of affiliated.) But this person already has 20 years of library experience as a clerk and then an associate with us, so we know her well and know she can do the job. We also insisted she get some experience at another library for a couple of years before we hired her back.
And that’s the crux of the matter. I would absolutely hire a graduate of an online program, but you can bet I’d be looking at work history and other experience VERY carefully. For a person with a lot of work experience in libraries already, I think an online degree might work. But I would have a hard time hiring someone who had just gone to school online and wanted to enter the job market for the first time.
I think online can work especially well for continuing ed. My daughter in law is a nurse and has been for years. She’s getting her Masters in nursing from Phoenix University, a very tough school. Getting additional training in a profession you already know and work in is different than thinking you can keyboard your way into a profession from the basement.
My reaction here is based somewhat on the current state of online education. As bandwidth and software improve to include a real virtual classroom where physical place no longer matters, I think online education will become better.
Mick, remember the motto of the Reagan administration…”doveryai, no proveryai” …trust but verify.
Bald is beautiful
When I received my degree a scant 6 years ago, I took about four total courses online, whereas the newly minted librarians on my staff have usually taken a third to a half of their courses online. My own degree program was not a close chummy bunch. Attending a commuter school in a large city, we all had jobs and lives and came and went from class as quickly as possible. I did value class discussions, however, and loved those odd moments when the professor would let down their guard and give you the real low down on the profession. You don’t get those personal moments in cyberspace.
To the question of whether I would prefer to hire someone with an online degree vs. a traditional degree, I’d have to give a very firm “it depends.” If the online degree person was working in a library while going to school, they’d likely get a thumbs up. In that case, their online degree may simply be a symptom of their thrifty, efficient, and driven nature.
On the other hand, the problem I most often find in new librarians is a terminal lack of social or interpersonal skills. No eye contact, sweaty handshakes, oddly quiet or oddly talkative . . . In this sort of candidate I’m likely to view the online degree as a symptom of their desire to avoid unnecessary personal interactions.
For what it’s worth . . . I’d suggest that anyone in an online degree program work hard to make themselves a well adjusted and well rounded candidate. The degree is not enough.
Frontline…you bring up a really fascinating subject. Maybe it’s relevant; maybe not. To an old codger like me, interpersonal skills have gone to hell in a handbasket. People no longer know what is polite and what is rude. I absolutely hate talking to someone who is texting on his/her phone, and this happens all. the. time! What’s your take on this larger issue? Have our communication gadgets gotten in the way of our communication skills?
“Have our communication gadgets gotten in the way of our communication skills?”
That sounds like the topic of whole post in and of itself! Ha!
::::KBS
Kim…nothing disturbs me more than someone who wants to talk to you and text at the same time. That’s just rude but it’s become an accepted social practice. Did I say I can’t stand that?
I don’t blame you for hating that, I do too. It does seem the ubiquitous nature of cell phones have made them more like personal extensions than communication accessories, with the unfortunate effect of people feeling entitlement to using them in all circumstances – at work, while driving, during a conversation, etc. It’s crazy-making, IMHO.
I do think that our gadgets have gotten in the way of communication skills, but it’s not just texting, etc. It’s the belief that we really can multitask – that we really can have two conversations at once and give each one 100% attention. I regularly stop talking when someone is texting during our conversation, just as I would if they answered the phone and began speaking to someone else.
I recently watched Digital Nation by Frontline (available in its entirety at pbs.org) which isn’t new but is a fascinating look at how technology has impacted everything about the way we communicate, concentrate, learn, etc. It’s not anti-tech, but it really does give you something to think about.
At the very least, I believe technology has given the very shy a place of sanctuary that unfortunately does not stretch them out of their comfort zone. A large number of this group are also drawn to library work. I say this as an avowed techie, an introvert, and an absolute nerd. I know whereof I speak
“You don’t get those personal moments in cyberspace.”
I beg to differ on that. I teach online (for San Jose State University) and I and my students blog in our Drupal classroom. There are plenty of personal moments, interesting discussions, and lots of learning not only from the Prof, but from one’s peers. It takes effort to design an online class in this way (using a constructivist learning model), but it’s worth it because of the level of interaction between students and instructor and the level of engagement students have in the class.
I think a lot of people base their views of online learning on a crappy webinar they attended, a bad online course they took, etc., when there are a lot of truly excellent online courses/programs/instructors who are creating something different from F2F learning but no less immersive, engaging and human.
In my opinion, there is no substitute for person-to-person contact. When it is available, it is preferable, and in the case of someone texting (or speaking on a cell phone) while in the company of someone else, I have no patience.
That said, if no in-person program is available to you and you are limited by circumstance (such as raising a family as I am) so that you can’t move to attend a traditional MLIS program, I feel grateful to be able to attend San Jose’s on-line program.
But I am of the school that believes communication gadgets HAVE gotten in the way of communication skills. These gadgets are meant to be tools, not substitutes for the real thing.
Pat…the point is that I think we have reached the point of no return with the iThingys. As Kim says above…they have become bionic parts of the body.
I would hate to try to live without my iPod, Will. I can’t communicate with it (thank God) but wherever I go I have my classic rock, Gregorian chant, Mozart and Bach. I have a dock in my office, my car has an auxiliary jack … no more commercial radio, just what I want to listen to.
Okay, listening to Mozart is healthy for mind, body, and spirit.
Would you want to go to an on-line university MLS degree program?
I received a degree through the University of North Texas’ online program, and I loved it.
If you were hiring a librarian in the electronic resources area wouldn’t you prefer someone with an on-line degree simply because that person directly understands what’s involved in delivering and receiving on-line services?
I honestly think that the way in which the courses were delivered is irrelevant. If the person with the online degree was the most qualified, then he/she’d be the one to hire.
Do you think that the rise of the on-line MLS degree will result in a new librarian paradigm, one that is more technically than humanistically oriented?
I think we already have a more technically oriented paradigm, but it has less to do with the degree delivery and more to do with the incredible prevalence of technology in our society now.
Would you hire someone with an on-line degree for a children’s librarian position?
Well, one of the most successful and interesting courses offered in the YA concentration in our grad program was the Storytelling class, so I know that those skills can be successfully taught in an online format.
Without face to face classroom experiences, won’t on-line students lack sufficient preparation in the area of human relations skills? Is this an important issue for the formation of future library leaders?
I don’t see graduate school as a primary place for developing human relation skills. Most of the students in our cohort were either people with a wealth of life experience who were pursuing a 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) career, or were working in a library and being passed over for promotions because they were missing the magic letters behind their names. If they hadn’t developed “people skills” by that point, moving elsewhere to attend graduate school wouldn’t have helped them.
Will on-line graduates be more insistent in being given telecommuting opportunities on the job?
Honestly, I don’t see why they would be.
Was your library school experience similar to mine in that I learned as much in the coffee shop with my classmates and professors as in the classroom?
Absolutely! It’s just that my coffee shop was in a virtual village full of chat “tables,” and much of that socialization took place on instant messenger and in my jammies.
Is the on-line degree development a good thing for the future of librarianship?
Speaking for my area of the country (where there are no accredited library schools in at least a 3-state region), absolutely. We can receive a quality education without having to leave a region which actually needs people with library degrees.
Anything else you want to talk about in this subject area?
I don’t think an online degree is for everyone, but when you are geographically limited, it is absolutely a godsend. I had young children when I began my degree, and I had family who were able to help with childcare in the area, which I would not have had if I had moved to the nearest (or any other) in-residence program. I quite simply would not have been able to pursue a degree without the online capability. I’ve also never had it come up as a negative in a job interview, and I have worked steadily in libraries since I received my degree.
I also do want to note that UNT very deliberately sets up their online program as a cohort program that begins with a 4 day face-to-face introduction, so that you do have some person interaction before heading to your respective corners of the world to work on coursework, and you know you’ll be in courses with the same people for at least a year after that. In my humble and fairly biased opinion, it’s the way to go.
Jennifer, great post. Your perspective as an on-line graduate is tremendously valuable. Out of curiosity, how did they do the storytelling class on line? Thanks.
Free podcasting software, videocameras and a very dedicated professor, if I recall correctly. (I was a tech services geek, but my closest friend in the cohort was in the youth services concentration. She took storytelling, I took metadata.) I believe the audio files are still archived online.
Yep, they are: http://www.courses.unt.edu/efiga/TheFunnyBone/index.htm
I, too, am one of these completely online SJSU library students– but I was fortunate enough to take two in-person classes before the program went entirely online (it just happened this past fall). When I was considering LIS grad programs, relocating wasn’t an option, and I was excited to learn that San Jose, where I lived, had an accredited program. (Now is a good time to mention that job postings tend to say that an MLIS must come from an ALA-accredited school, not necessarily a brick-and-mortar school. Just something to think about.) I felt neutral about online courses in the beginning; I had had some online components of my entirely-on-campus undergraduate education, and was comfortable enough with technology not to be anxious about being able to handle it. I am relieved, however, that I was able to take those two in-person classes (especially because one of them was cataloging)! Online education can often be pretty isolating, and I’ve learned that there is a lot to be said for just being physically *present* in a class. That said, I do think that the nature of the SJSU program has pushed me to be more proactive about attending professional (SLA, CLA, etc.) events, as well as searching for internships and volunteer opportunities to make sure I’m developing the real-life skills that will likely matter just as much as whatever theory I’m learning in my classes.
All of the above to say, essentially, that I don’t consider online education to be “less than” in-person education in any way, and that I think it has made me into a more independent and proactive learner. I don’t know what kind of reputation San Jose State has among potential employers, but I do know that, when I go to job interviews, I’m getting a lot more questions about projects that I’ve been able to complete *outside* the “classroom” than what sort of classes I’ve been spending my days in.
(Sorry if this seems defensive! I’m a semester away from graduation, and suggestions that my degree might be worth less in the job market make me pretty nervous.)
Megan, actually I don’t think you sound defensive. To me you sound very objective in that there are some things you like about on-line and some things that you prefer about face to face. Every current student who has commented tonight has taken some if not all of their classes on-line. I think it’s just a process of education for interviewers who went through a total classroom approach to getting the MLS. There may be a bit of fear that on-line students are shy and nerdy, but that is an easy misconception to overcome at the interview. Your perspective is very valuable to this discussion and I certainly appreciate your taking the time to participate. Good luck with your job search. Who knows? Maybe your comment will help get your name out there.
I’m a fan of online classes. I also believe the California library programs are outstanding, online or face-to-face. The online library programs allow more people to take library courses than was ever before possible. They also increase the pool of qualified instructors because again, geography is not an issue.
My experience working with people who are going through these online programs indicates that the classes are rigorous and challenging. Projects, internships, online collaboration, interaction with the instructor one-on-one via chat and bulletin board sharing, all provide opportunities for being connected.
The best children’s librarian I ever met did all her degree work online. Education, no matter how you get it, cannot teach good personality skills and a positive outlook, which she has. Those qualities, as others have noted, are at least as important as technical knowledge.
And the shortage of jobs? That is true no matter how you get your degree. However, if you are not located near a large university (so needed to get your degree online), the competition may not be as stiff for the library positions available
Jeanne, thanks for an excellent perspective. The shortage of jobs is a real concern, I would think, for all LIS schools. They certainly don’t want to be in the business of luring students into librarianship with the promise of jobs that don’t exist. But then again market forces will probably eventually balance the number of grads with the number of jobs. At some point, the boomers will have to retire, won’t they?
Well, at some point we’ll keel over, if nothing else. But:
– on the positive side, people are living longer, at least people with reasonable access to good food and health care are, and librarians seem to stay mentally and physically active and to enjoy their work more than some. So we stay in the saddle a bit longer. (Not to mention that we are one of the professions that tend to be a later-life choice in the first place.)
– That’s the carrot; the stick is that many of us can’t afford to retire too soon. And that stick is growing longer and heavier by the day, and sprouting thorns too.
– When we do leave, our jobs don’t necessarily go to the next worthy cohort ready to step up. Sometimes they are downgraded and part-timed, or their duties are split up and distributed among other staff, or they are outsourced or eliminated altogether.
All that’s not to say that good jobs won’t open up as we codgers move on, one way or another. But I do think there are reasons not to expect the big surge of openings that people were predicting a few years ago. And I certainly hope I’m wrong; it would be very far from the first time.
I think that online programs are like any other academic program – some universities provide a better education than others. Some schools work on making their programs as “accessible” as possible, but that often means cutting corners – teaching whatever is easiest to teach online and hiring adjunct faculty who are comfortable teaching online but may not have the depth of some traditional faculty (not that traditional programs don’t also tap the adjunct “working” instructor pool). When library schools become too much like the National Universities of this world, I worry about quality.
I also interact periodically with students of SJSU’s program and often feel that through their assignments, the instructors are shifting the teaching work to whatever professional the students can tap for their assignments. It means that depending on where they live, students will have vastly unequal resources to draw upon. And sometime being that resource, it’s like trying to give someone an internship in a 60 minute project interview. I feel less and less inclined to accommodate these students – I’m not being paid to be their instructor. There’s mentoring and then there is being taken advantage of – not by the student but by the online program. [end of rant]
I work with two graduates of online programs – one went to the school that still required students to come to campus for a short while, and one did a totally online program. One I would recommend to any potential employer, one is a constant battle to encourage professionalism. Guess which is which.
Mary Ellen…Thanks for a great comment. I give up…which is which?
The one who was willing to be inconvenienced a bit to get a degree from a better school is the I would recommend. The one who took the absolute easiest route to a degree, not so much.
Thanks.
I got my MLS in pre-Internet days – working all day, commuting to attend evening classes. No coffee shop discussions here. I have since taken online continuing education courses. Based on both experiences, I would love to have had the opportunity to do at least part of the MLS online.
Teresa…great perspective. Thanks.
I teach in the SJSU SLIS program as a full-time instructor, and I am continuously impressed with the level of commitment and the intellectual engagement our students exhibit. I am proud to say that Patty, who began this discussion above, was an excellent student of mine this term. While I am not familiar with other online programs, the MLIS from SJSU SLIS is as good as if not better than any face-to-face program I know of.
I came into online teaching as a skeptic, having graduated from a small liberal arts college that put great value on face-to-face instruction and also having taught in a face-to-face environment for fifteen years (high school English, college composition, and courses in two library schools). I believe that the range in quality of online instruction varies greatly (perhaps more than it does in a face-to-face environment), but it is possible to have an excellent online program, excellent online instructors, and excellent online students. As I am sure you know, Will, SJSU SLIS, under the sage direction of Dr. Ken Haycock (and soon the direction of Dr. Sandy Hirsh), has in place several safeguards to ensure quality instruction. For example we have an annual two-day faculty institute on-site in San Jose during which we discuss pedagogy and best practices in an online environment. Like nearly all other library schools, SJSU SLIS employs part-time faculty members who supplement the teaching of the full-time faculty members; this institute is for ALL faculty–full-time and part-time. I don’t know of another program that invests so much in the part-time faculty to ensure that the instruction is done well.
I understand your concerns about the informal conversations at coffee shops and in hallways. I had similar concerns myself before I began teaching for SJSU SLIS almost four years ago. However, my experience has proven my concerns to be baseless. When I have taught in face-to-face programs, the majority of my contact with students has been in the three-hour weekly class, and perhaps a few emails here and there. In my online classes, we essentially never leave class, and so I am in contact with my students every day of the week, through email, through discussion boards, through my weekly synchronous office hour via Elluminate (our web-conferencing software), through phone conversations, through Google Talk chat sessions, through Facebook, etc. Without a doubt, I have much more contact with my students through SJSU SLIS even though I live in North Carolina than I did when I was teaching in face-to-face SLIS programs. While I readily admit that this level of communication with students around the clock can be overwhelming at times, I also absolutely love it because I love teaching and I love having contact with students. After a semester, I feel like I know the vast majority of my students well enough to vouch for them with lots of specifics in letters of recommendation, not just about their coursework but also their interpersonal skills. With as much contact as we have in various modes, it is not difficult to discern the social skills of people, and when I have met my students face-to-face (as I had the pleasure to do with Patty last week when I was in San Jose for the faculty institute and convocation), my estimations of their interpersonal skills are always confirmed. People who are abrupt or awkward in an online environment tend to be the same way in a face-to-face environment, and people who are graceful and cordial in an online environment tend to be the same way in a face-to-face environment. All this is to say that I do develop meaningful relationships with students, and I am still in contact with students I had in my first semester teaching for SJSU SLIS. Of course, this all takes time and effort, but it is possible, and it does happen.
I could continue to write about the many ways that SJSU SLIS students have incredibly rich and numerous opportunities for interaction with peers and instructors, but I have to return to my never-ending task of providing feedback on student work!
Will, I am delighted to see you are now a member of the SJSU SLIS board.
Michelle Holschuh Simmons http://slisweb.sjsu.edu/people/faculty/simmonsm/simmonsm.php
Michelle, it was so good of you to take the time to give such a comprehensive comment and address head-on the questions that many of us have about on-line classes. I was hoping that we would get the teacher’s perspective and you have answered my hopes. You have given me a lot to ponder especially when I reflect on your background as a student and teacher. Your endorsement of on-line classes is certainly impressive. Thanks again and I hope you stay with the blog and give us your comments from time to time.
Would you want to go to an on-line university MLS degree program?
Yes! I did just that back in 1996-1999 through Syracuse University and it was an excellent program–even with all the troubles we had with technology. Turned out to be the perfect time to do distance learning; on the job I had many, many opportunities to help others who were considering and then later following the same route.
If you were hiring a librarian in the electronic resources area wouldn’t you prefer someone with an on-line degree simply because that person directly understands what’s involved in delivering and receiving on-line services?
That’s one definite plus, I’d say.
Do you think that the rise of the on-line MLS degree will result in a new librarian paradigm, one that is more technically than humanistically oriented?
No, I don’t think that will happen. People generally become librarians because they want to help other people. They act as mediators between technology and the people. Otherwise, they become IT specialists.
Would you hire someone with an on-line degree for a children’s librarian position?
Of course. Having an online degree doesn’t preclude having experience working first hand with children.
Without face to face classroom experiences, won’t on-line students lack sufficient preparation in the area of human relations skills? Is this an important issue for the formation of future library leaders?
With today’s technology, online students have opportunities to interact with instructors and other students pretty well (with Webex, videoconferencing, chats, etc.). In fact, I find that in an online environment the discussions stay more focused and people have a better opportunity to express themselves and have their point of view considered than I remember from on campus classes. When time runs out at the end of the period, students can still submit their ideas and feedback (even hours/days later) and it doesn’t get lost in the shuffle of things.
Human relations skills are learned as part of life, not something reserved for the classroom. And we never stop learning and improving on those skills.
Will on-line graduates be more insistent in being given telecommuting opportunities on the job?
If you have taken on-line courses in any area at all you will know firsthand whether or not you have the self discipline to manage your work at home and know what it takes to make the venture successful. You might find that online graduates prefer working away from home and “out in the world” while others have a dreamy idea about how nice it would be to work in their pajamas with the cat in their lap/on the keyboard, etc.
Was your library school experience similar to mine in that I learned as much in the coffee shop with my classmates and professors as in the classroom?
No, probably not. Sounded more like my days earning my bachelor’s. When our group got together we just had fun together OR we were quite focused on the subject matter at hand. It was enough for me. I had a full plate with homeschooling three daughters and re-locating the entire household every few months plus involvements in the local community.
Is the on-line degree development a good thing for the future of librarianship?
Yes, I believe that it is. It opens the doors to so many people unable to access to such studies at a physical institution. There are excellent, good quality programs out there. JG
Couple of more comments I’d like to add:
1) About a new librarian paradigm: Technology has opened up a range of new opportunities for librarians, which in itself stretches the librarian paradigm.
2) Can human relations skills be learned online? People are learning a whole new set of skills for online interactions.
3) People who are online a lot (whether by laptop or mobile phone or other mobile devices) are not as isolated from other people as those who seldom go online might believe. There’s a very active “social” network of people around the world underway that is fascinating in its development, reach and impact both locally and globally. JG
This, absolutely THIS, 100%. I think you’ve hit it squarely on the head, Joyce, in pointing out the /crucial/ issues facing the industry and people trying to make a living in it.
1. I was told during my application process that knowing computer programming is a plus, due to the trend of digitized collections and database management for traditional collections. I am, actually, an “archivist” for small collections of stories online, none of which have ever seen paper, yet I’d be hard pressed to describe how my role as “online archivist” is all that different from the traditional concept of “librarian”.
2. Some social skills can certainly be learned online, if a person is looking to do so. I think the greater factor, though, is exposure to concepts that a person might never stumble across in RL contributing to a better awareness of important social and cultural issues. (Particularly noticeable regarding issues of accessibility or conditions such as autism, which can and often are marginalized in the RL world.)
3. The idea of “social network” has been completely metamorphosed by the internet. People who would otherwise hardly talk at all – or, never – communicate daily through venues such as FB and twitter. (In my case it has meant reconnecting with fellow college alumns and even family members I had spoken with in /decades/.) You would be hard pressed to convince most people I know that their OL social network is any less valid or important than their RL one.
It *IS* a paradigm shift, and I think we are all flat-footed in the midst of it, no matter how hard we try to understand how or even what is changing. It is hard to stand still in the valley between two mountain ranges in the midst of an earthquake…
Good morning Will and Unwinders,
I had the fortune (misfortune?) of obtaining a dual Master’s degree for an MLIS and History, and in the course of obtaining my degrees I had to take both classes on campus and online classes. This at least gave me the opportunity to experience both, and weigh the pros and cons. I will get to your questions, but want to point out two things that I have learned after graduating recently, and both aren’t that earth-shattering, just two observations: 1) The university that you go to is very important. Each university has it’s own perks and hangups, and while I feel the university I went to (Univ. of Wis.-Milwaukee) was very good, I can see many improvements that can be made to the program. 2) even more important than the university are the professors. I had some amazing professors, both online and in class, and I also had some awful ones. This makes or breaks the class and the education experience much moreso than the environment of the classroom. Ok, really quickly –
1)Not necessarily. The classes I took online forced me to utilize online social sharing software and learn those, but not necessarily from an educator’s perspective. I believe you’ll learn more on how to utilize technology as an online student ONLY if you do not have much basic experience with the online community.
2)Absolutely, but that would not be the basis for the hire. I would hire the person best suited for the position, not basing it on if their degree was from an online program or in-house program.
3)Isn’t that like saying home-schooled children run this risk? I know that many people debate this, but my experience is that this does not matter all that much. People are social if it is a part of their personality, and vice versa. People skills do come from experience, but think of how much people skills/customer service skills you garner in the classroom.
4)I doubt it. Online degrees in all areas are on the rise, and that doesn’t relegate them to the telecommuting sphere. I believe at this point, online degrees are viewed more favorably than they were a couple years ago.
5)God, I wish! As I said, my experience was half & half. But no coffee shops…though the occasional meetup at the local tavern for discussion did occur from time to time. This may be different due to the fact that the university I went to was a commuter university. Was yours? I’m guessing no.
6)Yes, because it is allowing people that have wanted to enter this field to have access to classes and education no matter where they are. It is up to the school and the employers to weed out those who are competent and viable for positions in the field, not focusing on if their classes were on a computer screen or actually in the classroom.
Last point: With all of this hot air that I’ve been blowing, I will make one contradicting point: some classes (I feel) are better to be taught in the physical classroom. I took two cataloging classes online, with one of the professors being across the country, and they were nightmares. With that said, I believe that two main points factored into this: 1) the educators and 2) cataloging just isn’t my strength. When I was in school I talked to some of my classmates and they did not have any issues with the online cataloging class. Lastly, one of my favorite classes (Freedom of Information) was taken online…again, it depends on who is teaching it, not where the class is set.
Thanks for the topic for discussion!
Would you want to go to an on-line university MLS degree program?
- I did. It was the only way I could get to library school unless I abandoned my job, family, home, and life.
If you were hiring a librarian in the electronic resources area wouldn’t you prefer someone with an on-line degree simply because that person directly understands what’s involved in delivering and receiving on-line services?
- No. I’d hire the best candidate for the job. Experience and attitude are the most important considerations, not how (or if) they got the piece of paper. The degree, no matter where it is from, does not magically make people good librarians.
Do you think that the rise of the on-line MLS degree will result in a new librarian paradigm, one that is more technically than humanistically oriented?
- No. Online learning involves group projects, online chat, study teams that cross continents, and requires people to be able to work together at a distance. Just like online reference or email list-servs, state-wide task-forces, or ALA committees. And besides, I’ve met a LOT of classroom trained librarians who aren’t the least bit humanistic – especially when it comes to dealing with non-degreed people, either as customers or co-workers.
Would you hire someone with an on-line degree for a children’s librarian position?
- Depends on their background and experience. There were many people in my distance learning class who were parents, teachers, and experienced with children. There are many classroom trained childrens librarians who took the job because it was all that was available. There are many teachers who shouldn’t be allowed in a room with children. Again – it’s all about experience and attitude. (By the way, childrens librarians are very scary people – they actually like noise in the library!)
Without face to face classroom experiences, won’t on-line students lack sufficient preparation in the area of human relations skills? Is this an important issue for the formation of future library leaders?
Classroom trained librarians lack human relation skills. That’s not part of the curriculum – online or not. Not sure it ever has been – the first librarian I ever met was a mean old biddy who didn’t want me to check out books because she though they were too old for me. My father had to fight with her over it, and went with me to the checkout desk every Saturday to make sure she didn’t stop me from reading.
Will on-line graduates be more insistent in being given telecommuting opportunities on the job?
- Doubtful. But they might be more willing to participate in Library 3.0, which is where the patrons are these days. Online or not, they didn’t get their MLS because they didn’t want to work in the library!
Was your library school experience similar to mine in that I learned as much in the coffee shop with my classmates and professors as in the classroom?
- Not the coffee shop – the chat rooms and discussion boards. We had a person who worked as a cataloger in our cataloging class and she practically taught the class since she was willing to share her insights and experiences with the class.
Is the on-line degree development a good thing for the future of librarianship?
- Yes, and for the University system in general. It’s the 21st century and universities are stuck in the 1700′s. They are expensive, self-serving anachronisms. It’s unacceptable that our children come out of school with student loan debt totally more than my mortgage. The tenure system rewards incompetence. The gap between the haves and have-nots is exacerbated by an educational system that awards higher education based on financial and class structure, and then produces economists, lawyers, and bankers who are so unethical and out of touch that they can crash the entire world’s economy and not admit their mistakes. It has to change. And library school has to be part of that change.
Anything else you want to talk about in this subject area?
Online university curriculum is subject to the same accredidation processes as the on-campus programs, both by the university accrediting agencies and the ALA.
The first time I went to school I was 17 and mostly played around. I quit, and went back later to finish my undergrad degree. By that time I was married and had a child. Even though I was on-campus, as a “non-traditional” student my experience was totally different. I had priorities, like caring for my child, and paying a mortgage. And I found it harder to bond with the children. I spent most of my time with the other re-entry students because our goals and experiences were similar. When I went back to school for my MLS I did it online. I found that many of my classmates were like me, older students starting a second or third career, who had often worked in a library already and met the MLS wall that keeps “paraprofessionals” (a heinous word) in their place. We exchanged phone numbers and email and we chatted outside the online classroom – we just didn’t do it face to face.
So, for distance education, don’t knock it ’til you’ve tried it.
Oh, and library as place isn’t going away because of distance education, any more than because of the Internet. Libraies are public commons, the new third place. Just look at the new libraries we are building even in this economy. But, our public commons will include an Internet cafe, distance learners using our computers, books, and journals, and librarians proctoring their tests.
I totally agree with Deb’s comments. I’m currently pursuing my MLIS degree, and I am a Distance Ed student too. I love the online atmosphere most because it allows the student to really have time to formulate their responses to questions posed in class and therefore gets rid of the “off the top of your head” response you sometimes get in a traditional classroom setting. The format also allows – no, requires – students to really do their research before responding to a thread or posting their homework, since there’s no excuse not to. I would say that my research skills are vastly improved by this style of learning and that will help me long after my degree is completed.
The other great thing about the online environment is the possibility for diversity in our classrooms. I’ve never NOT had a student from abroad in one of my classes (I’m about 60% done with my degree) and I think this opportunity is amazing for both the international student, and all the rest of us to share our different experiences and to learn what it is to be a librarian – wherever you are!
As far as your questions about how we collaborate, Deb hit that right on the head too. My school even has a section of the D2L site that’s called the Student Lounge – a virtual coffee shop. Now, I can say that sometimes the online environment allows for too much retrospection. In this, I mean the “coffee shop” seems to be filled up with complainers. It’s even more unfortunate when the on-site students begin having negative thoughts about the online students… and post them. It does not create that community atmosphere that we would hope for. But, all in all – that’s been kept to a minimum, and I would say that I still like the format and flexibility the online degree offers me.
I need to be the center of attention at all times so online would never work. Just kidding!!
I have had several staff obtain their degree online. These are people who are already immersed in the library so they have plenty of real life experience and contact with co-workers. I personally think it would be hard to take a class online, but it is the only way for many people out here to get a degree.
BTW, I was at a director’s meeting the other day and 5 out of 14 people there had me a spouse online, most on e-harmony. So I guess online relationships can work. Oh, and some of them had been married a few years already.
I meant met, not me. Freudian slip?
When I graduated from SJSU in 2006, most of my classes still had some meetings – but it was only 2 to 4 a semester. Most of the work was online. Some of the classes were completely online. I liked the interaction with my fellow students as teachers, but was also glad for the few sessions on weekends because it was a 2 hour drive. I was working full time already and this is my second (third?) career.
My daughter just finished the program on Monday. I think she only took one class in the beginning that met, and that was at my insistence. She liked the convenience of doing classwork around her job, and social schedule. She also was able to move out of California in January and still finish up to graduate.
As to hiring a “laptop” graduate, yes, I would (and did a year ago). But I’m not in a public library. I’m in a small corporate library and the people we support are spread around the country. We have to work electronically anyway. My situation doesn’t apply to that part of the question.
The library school that I attended was quasi-online. The University of S. Carolina in partnership with the University of Maine created a cohort group. There were about 20 of us in the program; classes were televised live via satellite to various locations throughout Maine. Again I was fortunate in that the school district in which I lived was an ITV site, so no long travel commute. Throughout the program we all met at least once a semester at the University of Maine in Augusta which is centrally located in the State. For me it was a great experience, also I was an older grad student actually most of us in the cohort were career changers. Another advantage that I had was that while I was in the program I was actually working in a School library so I felt I got the best of both – technology and the human approach.
Hiring a “laptop” graduate sounds like something you could get fired for. Right up there with surfing porn.
I got my degree through the distance learning option at U of Iowa back in the late 1990s. It was a combination of attending class in different rooms around the state with the instructor broadcasting through the Iowa Distance Learning Network, online courses and 6 hours on-campus. We got to see and hear each other whenever we used the microphone in the “TV” classes. I was in my late 20s, had a toddler with autism and a husband who became disabled during the middle of my studies. Distance learning was a godsend. I was working at a tiny rural library part-time, but I had to do all the same things that I now do in a library 16 times bigger, just on a smaller scale. I was active in the state library association and when I finished my degree I had a large network of contacts in the state’s library community. I went on field trips to larger libraries to do projects. Like anything in life, what you get out of an experience is what you put into it. I enjoyed the education I got as an undergraduate in a traditional setting but that wasn’t an option when I went back to school. I needed the flexibility allowed by utilizing the new technologies available at the time. If the only thing the online library student does is interact virtually with professors and classmates and doesn’t have to go beyond that, then they simply aren’t going to be as good a candidate for a job as someone with more to put on their resume. It won’t be about the nature of the degree but about the character of the applicant. I hope that online library degree programs today require more than just sitting in front of the computer. My distance learning program did and I have been successful in my career so it didn’t hamper me a bit.
While mine wasn’t an online experience, I can see the benefit for those in a situation where they need to work and study without the hassle of travel. I was in Richmond, VA when I got my MLS and in order to do so took several coures an CUA’s extension campus and spent a number of weekends in DC going to classes. Many of my choices were based on when the class met as opposed to content. Weekends and prolonged summer classes won out.
I acquired my degree while on the job in a corporate library and found that formal education coupled with academics worked wonders.
My favorite profs were the adjuncts who brought real life work experience to the table.
Coffee is for undergraduates. Grad students (at least in Pennsylvania) discuss important ideas over beer (usually Rolling Rock).
I was in the first fully online cohort at Clarion University. For me, online suits my learning style better. The interaction my classmates & I had was fantastic — all by message boards, chats, emails, phone calls. There is no way on earth I could have gone to a face to face program, particularly since it would have meant giving up the library job I already had. Most of my classmates were in similar situations — smaller communities, not near an accredited library school, older and already working in libraries, looking to gain the knowledge needed to move up in librarianship and make a contribution. The people coming out of online programs are just like those coming out of traditional ones — some fantastic go-getters, some who just managed to breathe successfully enough to get by. It’s not an inferior experience — just a different one.
I earned my MLIS degree from Florida State (FSU) between 1995 and 1999. This was the transition period from face to face to online classes. The professors used to drive from Tallahassee to Jacksonville once a week to teach their class to a group of us from the Jacksonville area. I was thrilled to be able to enroll in the program because I had moved to Florida fairly recently and wanted to go to library school. Where I was previously located in Richmond, Va. the closest library school was in Washington, D.C.–an impossible commute for a mother with young children. By 1999 when I graduated from FSU the library classes were all offered online. I was glad that I started out in face to face classes because I got to really know the people in my cohort, and many of them are still friends today.
I was teaching high school English at the arts magnet school, going to FSU, and fulfilling my role as a preacher’s wife–I wonder now how I got it all done. I loved that I could get online and do my assignments at home when I had the time (often late at night). I did miss the interaction of the classroom, but I was learning about the new technology while I completed my course work. This has stood me in good stead in my job because I came out of library school with a good grasp of how to use the technology I needed in my library.
When I graduated I was hired to open the library at the new magnet arts middle school, which opened in 2000. This was a challenge because they don’t teach you how to deal with shelving not showing up and teachers who want things from boxes that aren’t unpacked yet in library classes. A lot of my learning occurred on the job, but I also value the basics I learned in my course work. The projects, papers, and discussions assigned by the professors either in class or online helped me to understand the library profession and my role in it.
I have been a school librarian (media specialist) for ten years now, and I wish the online degree had been available to me even sooner. This is the most interesting and fulfilling job I have ever had, and without the distance education component I would never have been able to experience it.
In many cases the professors were learning about distance education right along with us–some of them were better at adapting to it than others. We had wonderful professors who did their best to use the new technology in a creative way. There were some classes which still needed to be face to face. One was Dr. Hart’s multi-media class for school librarians. He come to Jacksonville for three weekends in the summer so we could complete the face to face component. Today much of what he did could be accomplished by using technolgoy tools not available in 1996. So we all learn to change and grow as lifelong learners. I learn new technolgy from my students and other teachers every day, and I can do things I never dreamed of before 1995. I am so glad our profession has been able to meet the technology challenge both in our library schools and in our libraries.
Will
I have never met but I read your column faithfully and find humor and meaning in most of your posts. I teach in the distance learning program at SJSU. I find your comments most alarming and especially since you do have a front row seat to the workings of the San Jose State Library and Information Science program.
I have taught at San Jose for 5 years. I came from a public and school librarian background and it has been my privilege to work with so many fine students. so many of my students find employment immediately in the field. They are hard working and dedicated to the profession. They are also ready to take on the jobs in libraries today with both a solid foundation of librarianship but also having the opportunity to be taught by one of the best faculties around. So many of the SJSU faculty and instructors come from the front lines of libraries. Many of the instructors (from all over the country) I might add are front line librarians so they bring experience to the table.
The long distance and on-line approach to education is the future. I hear from so many of my students that they wouldn’t be able to get a degree if it weren’t for the MLIS offered on-line from SJSU. Most have full-time jobs with families so they can’t do the face-to-face. As instructors we receive incredible training for our teaching positions in the library school. We use state of the art technology to bring an interactive environment and while it is sometimes difficult to accept most of my students are able to adapt. As an instructor I use as many tools as I can to make my classes interactive. I use our Elluminate software to have live lecture and discussion sessions as well as videotape all of my lectures. My students present using video so we can see and hear each other.
Our students do projects that take them out into the community they live in, they do internships (we have a terrific internship program) and many already work in a library.
My opinion is that I am on the cutting edge of the way education is moving and SJSU is so far ahead of the curve. It was my delight to attend convocation at the library school last week and I was proud to see so many of my students graduate. I keep in touch with so many of my students and a very high percentage have gone on to jobs in both children’s and young adult services. For this column I really think you have missed the mark.
Dr. Ken Haycock or Dr. Linda Main could give you facts and figures on the success of the school but I want to answer personally as I thought that your column was somewhat amusing as I read through so many statements that were just a tad off to me in my experience teaching in the library school. It might serve you well to speak to some of the students attending presently to get their take on their educational experience – I think you’d be surprised to hear all the “positive” comments.
Thanks for the listen.
By the way these are my personal opinions and don’t reflect the opinion of SJSU.
Beth Wrenn-Estes
Instructor
School of Library and Information Sciences
San Jose State University
Ooh, an excellent two-fer / sets of questions. As ever, reading the comments has been illuminating.
I was one of those super-nerds who loved library school (classmates called me Hermione Granger – can’t imagine why) and still love/miss the other people in my cohort (wish they could’ve all stayed here, but am v. proud of their professional successes).
Online education seems to be a great option for people who a) live far from a library school, b) have worked in a library for a while and need the degree to advance, c) people who have unusual job/family/other scheduling situations to accommodate, d) situation I have not considered that someone will kindly point out to me. I am glad we have these options because there is no “one size fits all” solution to every educational need.
That being said, I’m glad my circumstances didn’t require it. And I really cherish all the coffeeshop/restaurant/party/bar/long walks experiences I had. Made a lot of great friendships and professional connections that way.
I recommend reading “This Book is Overdue: how librarians and cybrarians can save us all” by Marilyn Johnson. I won’t give a long winded review, the title pretty much covers it…google it!
I second that recommendation. An enthusiastic survey of our profession by a non-librarian who took the trouble to really see and appreciate what we’re doing.
I’d like to ask a question. What is SJSU doing admitting 5,000 students to their program? There are only 50 ALA accredited library schools in the United States. In my experience, library schools’ number of enrolled students is in the hundreds, not the thousands. According to this 2007 article (http://education-portal.com/articles/Where_Are_All_the_Library_Jobs_for_New_Graduates%3F.html) there are 5000 library science graduates per year competing for 4000 openings. Everywhere I turn I read that the job prospects for librarians are “bleak” or “weak.”
I discussed the issue with my wife after posting above. She told me that for distance learners she would look carefully at the school itself. One of her criteria is that the school have a strong physical presence and reputation. She said someone from the University of Washington, ranked fourth in the nation with a 4.3 (High is 4.5), would be well regarded, but “someone from Texas, not so much.” (her words, not mine.) SJSU shares a score of 2.8, tied for 22, i.e.: 22-25 with U of Alabama, U of Oklahoma, and Louisiana State. The rankings only go to 29 because many schools did not submit data. (18 0f them) http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-library-information-science-programs/rankings I don’t know if these rankings are ‘fair’ or not, but there is no doubt that schools vary in their ability to turn out qualified graduates.
As a prospective student or a prospective employer I would be looking at this closely. While recognizing the precariousness, if not the fickleness of rankings, SJSU is near the bottom of the heap and they appear to be churning out people as fast as they can. Do they reject anyone, or do they marticulate anyone who can pay the tuition? There are over 3500 universities in the US which have an enrollment smaller than 5,000. Where are these people going to get jobs? Is SJSU really being fair to these students? to the library community as a whole?
I was an older student who gott my MLS online and at the same time worked as a library assistant in a community college. When I graduated I was promoted to reference librarian. The library assistant job was my second job. Had I chosen to commute an hour one way to a classroom program I would have had to sacrifice the library assistant job because it was the lower paying of the two jobs I had. I felt working in a real library plus the online education trumped the classroom only option.
The very best Children’s Librarian I have ever met also got her degree online while at the same time working as a paraprofessionial in a large metropolitan public library.
My colleagues at the community college said my online program was much more rigorous than their face-to-face program. In addition, I learn much better in self-directed mode than in a classroom environment. I felt more focused than I ever have in a classroom. There are too many variables at play to generalize that an online education is in any way subpar as compared to classroom education.
I’m not sure why it is, but by the time I read your posts, there are always so many comments, that it’s so daunting to read them all!
First and foremost, I am an MLIS student who is currently enrolled in a distance learning program – and it’s interesting the way so many people look at it in such a degrading way (like using the terms “Laptop U” or “Computer Screen U”).
The program that I am enrolled in combines online learning with face to face meetings. So we get the benefits of both virtual communications with real time discussions. A lot of the work we do is online, but then we are able to come together and share with each other what we’ve done. It’s a wonderful combination, a best of both worlds deal.
The friendships and camaraderie that is formed can still be fostered in distance learning programs. Granted we have the benefit of the face to face class meetings – as well as the fact we only have 40 students and not 3,000 – but a lot of communication and banter happens online as well, through Facebook, emailing and chatting. We discuss our frustrations, hardships, rewards and benefits with each other just as students at more traditional programs would. In fact, some of my closest current friends are members of my cohort, even though we don’t live in the same city.
I feel like, in many ways, the online program is really setting me up for success in the professional realm. Already I have worked on two different projects for two different library conventions, and the entirety of communication I conducted with the individuals supervising the project was done online, and I felt right at home.
In closing, I’d like to point out this online article, from Inside Higher Ed, which highlights the notion that professors who teach online might actually be better teachers than those who conduct classes in more traditional formats: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/12/07/online
Will, I’m going to respond to just a few points more briefly than usual (sighs of relief all around), because it’s late, and so I can give my full attention to the fantasy-job post tomorrow if I have time.
Personally, I’m happy that I got my degree before the days of online learning. The face-to-face interactions and discussions with teachers and students added greatly to the experience. Having major research libraries available was invaluable–I used the Regenstein a lot, and during my thesis research also used the Newberry, Northwestern, and I think Loyola libraries. And for me, the incredible neo-Gothic beauty of the U of C campus was a very big deal. In the end I am more poet than scholar, I guess. A real campus, with green leaves in the summer and snow in the winter, the smell of old books in the library, squirrels in the trees and critters in the Botany Pond, stone steps underfoot and gargoyles overhead, has a richness of sense and experience that can’t be matched at a computer.
That said–life brings us into situations where we can’t always do things just the way we might want. I had a colleague who was finishing her B.A. online, because that was how she had to do it. She had kids at home, a husband who routinely had to be out of town, a full-time job. She is smart, focused, and incredibly hard-working, and did well. If she decides to go on for an MLIS, she’ll do that the same way, and do well.
So far I don’t think I’ve interviewed anyone who has done their degree entirely online. If I do, I’ll evaluate them the same way as I evaluate anyone else. When they talk about their coursework, does what they say show that they engaged with it and learned it in depth? What has their experience been? What do their references say about them? Do they seem honest, smart, personable, really interested in the job they are interviewing for? Do they seem like a good fit here?
About the whole question of so many people going into MLIS programs, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand it’s gratifying that so many want to join us — and there are a lot of really bright, talented, creative, dedicated people lining up at our doors. When I was an adjunct at Dominican and teaching regularly (I’m still teaching, but in a distance-learning program now, as it happens), the quality of the students in my classes kept me optimistic about the future of the profession. On the other hand, where are the jobs for them? I’m starting to think we are heading for the kind of hopeless job market that faced new Ph.D.s in the seventies. On the third hand, if they want to give it a try, who am I to say no?, and there are other fields where they can use the knowledge, skills, and (I hope) values they will pick up. But if anyone is still talking up a wide-open job market that doesn’t exist, hasn’t existed for some years, and probably never will exist again, they are being dishonest and irresponsible and need to stop.
(I seem to recall making some rash promise about being brief. Sorry. Like Thomas Jefferson in his letter to his friend, I didn’t have time to make it short.)
I start my MLIS from UWM in September. While the program is offered both online and onsite, I will be doing the online course. I would enjoy a classroom setting; however, I also need to work full time. Online courses provide that opportunity for me. When I applied for my program, I was a police officer working shifts…2 weeks on days, 2 weeks on nights. It’s impossible to go to a traditional class with those hours. (Not to mention the court cases, moving days off…etc.)
UWM offered an onsite orientation for all MLIS students, in which I did attend. I met several professors, my advisor, and made some connections with fellow students. Through the use of facebook, I have managed to stay in contact with them and even connect with more UWM organizations.
Online programs are often setup to facilitate discussions between fellow students using Blackboard or what have you, which encourages debates and normal classroom interaction. Nowadays, online courses are also include camera use and the like, allowing everyone to see each other. Plus, my program requires hand-on experience before graduation. My advisor helps setup field work for each student in our discipline. I’d say that is pretty awesome.
This online program is a lifesaver for me and with my work history, I don’t feel it will have any affect on my job prospects. I look forward to starting in September and only wish is were sooner!
I think I have some fairly unique experience in this area being someone who got their degree online (through FSU), teaches online (through SJSU’s SLIS program), has been a distance learning librarian supporting online students, and has hired several librarians who received totally online degrees (through UIUC and SCSU).
My experience as a student at FSU in 2003-4 was not very positive. I felt like most of the professors really hadn’t thought about how the online medium was different and simply tried to cram a face-to-face (F2F) course into the online course management system. For the most part, the required class discussions weren’t engaging (mainly because they felt stilted and inorganic, more like a requirement than a learning experience) and I felt isolated from my fellow students and the University. I still learned a good deal and got a lot of experience from working in public and academic libraries during that time, so I don’t feel like I came out of the program without the skills to work in the profession. And given that the first two people at my library who were hired right after getting degrees from online LIS program have excelled in their positions and have both been moved up to key management positions (in instruction and technology), I’d say that having an online degree didn’t hinder us. It’s more about the person than the degree. Lots of people who go through face to face programs have no social skills.
What I did get from being an online student was an understanding of the challenges people face as online learners or even as F2F learners who access the library’s resources online. Whether we’re serving distance learners or not, most of us are dealing with lots of patrons who are accessing our library and its resources from online. Having people on staff who are sensitive to how web design, information architecture and availability of help (either though a librarian or online guides) impact student research is extremely valuable. It’s not that someone who wasn’t a distance learner can’t understand that, but I think being in that situation provides valuable perspective.
The main reason I wanted to teach online is because I wanted to show that online learning can be just as rigorous, engaging and valuable as face-to-face learning. It’s never going to be the same, and it requires very different thinking about course design, but it can be a great experience for students. And I have proven that to be true (<a href="http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2010/05/19/creating-community-in-online-learning/"check out the student comments I posted in a recent blog post). The discussions we had in our online classroom were far more interesting than those I had in most face-to-face classes I’ve taken. It’s all about throwing away the “sage on the stage” model and adopting a constructivist model where everyone in the class is both teacher and learner and my role as instructor is more of a facilitator than “the expert.”
I do think that it’s important to have some face to face experience in higher education, whether that’s your graduate degree or your undergraduate degree. To be exposed to the culture, the learning environment, the library, etc. has great value, especially if you want to work in an academic library. I also think it’s extremely important to have library experience before you go on the professional job market. It doesn’t matter if you’re in an online or F2F program — if you are just learning about the profession without also applying what you’re learning, you’re not going to get the full benefit of a library school education. Also, it’s highly unlikely that anyone with zero library experience is going to get a job out of library school, which is why any library school that doesn’t require a practicum or some library experience is doing students a grave disservice.
I’m disappointed that there are still people who denigrate online degrees and the abilities of the people who choose to get them. It would be like saying that anyone who came out of a school that teaches more library theory than practical aspects of professional work is incapable of being a good, practical librarian.
What impact will an influx of online library school graduates have on our libraries? Only good things, I would think. They would bring the perspective of someone who has only accessed their library online and what that experience can be like for patrons. I was the first head of instruction at my library who was in any way focused on providing instructional resources for students accessing the library online (before that, we only had F2F instruction sessions). And those instructional resources have gotten tremendous use and have provided tremendous value to our students who don’t attend face-to-face instruction sessions. I don’t think online students assume that online is better or that the library as place is an old-fashioned notion. They simply recognize the importance of making sure that your online presence provides services as rich as those provided by the physical presence. And that, in my opinion, is a very good thing.
Ooops! Doing an online program doesn’t mean you’ll get your HTML right! The URL for the blog post I recently wrote on online learning is here http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2010/05/19/creating-community-in-online-learning/. And folks can see my SJSU classroom here http://sociallibraries.com/sp10/
Meredith, thanks for taking the time for such a valuble response to the issue at hand. Your experience as an on-line student and an on-line professor speak volumes. One of the things I am learning as I study all the comments is that the on-line experience is only as good as the effort, attitude, and technological expertise of the instructor who is delivering the course. Of course the same can be said of a traditional classroom experience. We’ve all had wonderful and not so wonderful classroom teachers. My guess is that on-line education struggled initially because of limited technology and inexperienced professors. It must have been very difficult for many traditional teachers to make the adjustment to on-line. Now that the delivery technology has improved and we have a cohort of teachers who are comfortable and enthusiastic about the on-line approach, the quality of the experience has, I am sure, improved significantly. The other issue that I would think exists (after having just read all the stuff you have written and linked to) is the additional time burdens that on-line teaching presents to the instructor who really wants to do it right and who really wants to create a mentor relationship with each student. I totally agree with Lisa’s comments below that on-line is the wave of the future not just for library science but for many disciplines that do not require lab work. Money talks and the economics of on-line education will be irresistible to administrators responsible for the bottom line. Again, thanks for the thoughtful responses today, thanks for the link to your course (which I found very helpful), and thanks for the link to your very excellent blog.
As a proud and committed instructor for SJSU/SLIS I have written a couple of pieces for the Chronicle of Higher Education in defense of online learning, if you are interested.
“Combating Myths about Distance Education.” The Chronicle of Higher Education February 22, 2010. http://chronicle.com/article/Combating-Myths-About-Dista/64299/
“Designing Effective Online Assignments.” The Chronicle of Higher Education March 22, 2010. http://chronicle.com/article/Designing-Effective-Online-/64772/
Regards, Todd Gilman
Todd, why do I feel like you are treating me like a student in one of your on-line classes? It’s very impressive that you have published, but this is a blog, not a class. Can you summarize your findings? Thanks.
Hi Will. Sorry: In short, (1) the medium is neither good nor bad. A class–whether online or on ground–is only as good as the people in it; and (2) to be successful, you have to be much more organized as both a teacher and a student online. Hope that clarifies.
Todd, thanks. Your point number 2 is the one that keeps resonating on this blog from the instructors. On-line really puts a much greater burden on the teacher who wants to do a thorough job of presenting the subject matter and who wants to be accessible to all the students individually. I guess I have a couple of questions for you if you have the time. In perusing your article about the tendency of much of academia to disparage on-line teachers and on-line education, how many really great instructors and professors will want to make the extra effort to teach online? Are the elite eastern schools exploring on-line instruction? Also, I know nothing about your background as a student but did you take on-line classes and what was your experience from that end of the equation? Thanks again, Todd.
Hi Will, Good question: Given “the tendency of much of academia to disparage on-line teachers and on-line education, how many really great instructors and professors will want to make the extra effort to teach online?” I believe most professors who are any good yet still resistant to online teaching will hold out as long as they can, unfortunately. Eventually their choices may be limited by economic necessity. At one institution I have taught for, there are simply fewer and fewer takers (among the students) for on-ground courses (when an online equivalent is offered) so the school is moving much more online than in years past. The trend will continue. Those teachers who don’t make the move will find themselves out of a job unless they are tenured. And as we know, tenure is an option for fewer and fewer college teachers these days. The big name eastern schools remain attractive enough to droves of students that they do not have give up their “brand” to faceless online learners (as these schools would characterize such a move).
I took a several-week-long teacher training course online in order to become an online instructor. It certainly opened my eyes to a lot of the issues online learners face, so it was worthwhile training and directly relevant to my needs. It taught me, for example, some of the things I emphasize in the Chronicle piece I shared about designing online assignments, esp. the part about the need to post important information more than once and in more than one place in your online classroom. You almost cannot “over-teach” online, I find. I am also about to embark on an online MBA program at UMass Amherst so I’ll let you know how that goes, too! My other degrees (BA, MA, PhD, MLS) were on-ground, mostly in pre-internet days (except the MLS but there was not much of an online offering then–1999). Hope that helps.
Yes – I have one (plus 8 years of library experience as para-professional)
Not necessarily – but I would want that person to explain their philosophy of what it means to have an “on-line” degree
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
At mpow (small, semi-rural, community college), the online degree is the future. Online enrollment has risen 10% (on ave.) per year, even during the 2 years that overall enrollment dropped 20%. I began there 5 years ago, when online enrollment was 5% of total student body, and now it is 30% and rising.
Online degrees are the future, whether we like them or not, or approve of them or not. I think that in the future, only the very wealthy, the very poor, and the very bright will be able to attend a traditional, 100% in person, school. They will be the only ones who can afford it, or qualify for need based scholarship, or qualify for an academic scholarship [ditto for athletes]. The average working-class person with average grades and not-rich/not-poor person will not be able to afford to attend a college. They will be able to afford to attend online school while working full time.
The “traditional” library school prepared MLS students for the “traditional” academy, where the librarian would be faculty librarian at university and be members of a tenured faculty (whether they worked at that or not). The “traditional” graduate experience preps you for a phd/tenure-track career, but the MLS is really not that.
It is a terminal degree, so I really don’t see why it is necessary for all library careers to have that.
However, pedagogy in the online experience is still lagging. What I saw in library school (2003-2005), and what I see at mpow is the same: faculty wedging “traditional” experiences into the online format. We have not yet transformed online learning into what it is meant to be, therefore, I think it still lacks in prepping students for the working world.
Higher education and librarian education is in a state of flux while standards and assessment is fluctuating. I think that someone who attends college in 10 years will have a vastly different undergraduate experience than I did 20 years ago.
Will,
My you do want to toss rocks at the hornets nest don’t you – lol.
You asked:
Would you want to go to an on-line university MLS degree program?
*No, but then I have had mine for over 20 years now.
If you were hiring a librarian in the electronic resources area wouldn’t you prefer someone with an on-line degree simply because that person directly understands what’s involved in delivering and receiving on-line services?
*That is not particularly relevant -either they have the skills or they don’t – where they received them does not predict how good they are.
Do you think that the rise of the on-line MLS degree will result in a new librarian paradigm, one that is more technically than humanistically oriented?
*No, I have had numerous interns from the program here at CAL and the bell curve lives.
Would you hire someone with an on-line degree for a children’s librarian position?
*Yes, but then I don’t work in a public library either.
Without face to face classroom experiences, won’t on-line students lack sufficient preparation in the area of human relations skills? Is this an important issue for the formation of future library leaders?
*Skills no, only in that they are people persons coming into grad school or they are not. It is of more concern to me that they have some of the immersion experience w/ a cohort and even brief “residency requirements” are desirable in my opinion.
Will on-line graduates be more insistent in being given telecommuting opportunities on the job?
*I think we should all be more insistent on telecommuting opportunities.
Was your library school experience similar to mine in that I learned as much in the coffee shop with my classmates and professors as in the classroom?
*Yes, absolutely.
Is the on-line degree development a good thing for the future of librarianship?
*I think the sheer numbers of grads will devalue the degree – they will become like English lit. majors – many of them won’t come within miles of a library.
*I also am saddened that everyone went in the totally online direction. Hybrid classes were better in my opinion, however they seemed not very popular overall with the students if they had a choice, so there’s that.
Anything else you want to talk about in this subject area?
Before beating the hornets nest with the stick – did you do your due diligence w/ research; of the history of how the program came to be “all” on-line?
Come visit Will.
Keep writing, always like your column, etc.
Best, John D. Berry, Librarian, Ethnic Studies Library, U.C. Berkeley
Will, I haven’t read all the comments on this thread, but I wanted to add my two cents
I had the advantage of attending UCLA for my library degree. We had a small (comparatively) library for our use. We also had access to the marvelous collections in the UCLA library system. Our comprehensive reference course required us to use several of the special libraries (Biomedical and physics, for example). I remember one question which asked us to locate an article about the flow of plasma through a viscous cone. Until I got that question, I thought that plasma was part of the bloodstream, so I looked at various medical and biological indexes. Nada.
Then one of my classmates, sensing my frustration, suggested I look in Physics Abstracts. Voila!
Students who earn their degrees from Laptop U. not only miss the give and take with fellow students but may not be able to consult print sources not available online and remotely.
If I were part of the hiring process for an entry-level librarian, I would present the following scenario:
It’s opening time on the Saturday following a holiday break. You turn on your computer and find that your library server has crashed. Your techie is on vacation, and, since your library isn’t part of your city’s IT system, no one is available to help you.
Besides suggesting students go to another library whose computer system is working, how would you answer the following questions:
1. I need an article on Michelle Obama’s wardrobe.
2. How can I calculate a comparison of the Consumer Price Index between 1990-2009?
3. A classmate of mine is an administrative aide for a member of Congress. I don’t know the name of the representative. Can you locate my friend?
3. The centennial of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire is next year. What were the consequences of that disaster for the company owners, labor unions, and other workers?
The answers to these questions can be found in books. If the candidate can name some of the print sources that can be used, s/he would be a strong finalist for the position.
I just graduated from Simmons, which I attended because it was the MLS school near me and I wanted a face-to-face degree for networking purposes; that said, I ended up taking two online courses during my degree (they were very convenient; not less work than my face-to-face but more flexible, they let me graduate sooner). That said, I have several acquaintances who are doing all-online, distance programs, because of both convenience and cost. I have to say that for us — adults with jobs, kids, or both — the idyllic picture you paint is not consistent with our MLS experience. Many of the people I met at Simmons were doing their degrees part-time around these other constraints, as are all the people I know in online programs.
If you were hiring a librarian in the electronic resources area wouldn’t you prefer someone with an on-line degree simply because that person directly understands what’s involved in delivering and receiving on-line services?
I’m nowhere near this position, but no; it seems to me the technical skills required to receive an online degree aren’t any more than the skills that any random person under 35 has these days, and I wouldn’t presume that an 18-year-old had relevant technical skills for an electronic resources position just because she spent all day on Facebook.
Do you think that the rise of the on-line MLS degree will result in a new librarian paradigm, one that is more technically than humanistically oriented?
No. Firstly, as someone who has met many friends online (though I recognize I’m pretty far to one end of the spectrum in terms of my ability to form relationships this way), I find the question frankly bizarre. Second, again, the technical skills required to earn an online degree aren’t any more than the technical skills that most young people have (or, for that matter, the ones I needed in my face-to-face classes). The amount of technological literacy I encountered among my professors, and the amount they expected of me, varied tremendously, and my online professor was not an outlier in either direction. There was nothing technical about my classes other than their mode of presentation.
Without face to face classroom experiences, won’t on-line students lack sufficient preparation in the area of human relations skills? Is this an important issue for the formation of future library leaders?
Have the students spent their entire pre-MLS lives living in vats?
Will on-line graduates be more insistent in being given telecommuting opportunities on the job?
This I’m not sure about. On the one hand, I expect so. On the other hand, I expect younger people in general will be more insistent about this, and I don’t know if I expect there to be a difference by delivery method of degree once generation is held constant (I do expect that online degree-seekers skew young, but I have no statistics on that).
Was your library school experience similar to mine in that I learned as much in the coffee shop with my classmates and professors as in the classroom?
No. See above. I finished my classes, I ran home to be with my toddler. I would’ve liked to have had that experience, but most of my classmates were running back to work themselves.
Is the on-line degree development a good thing for the future of librarianship?
Yes, because it lets people enter the profession who could not have otherwise (both because of geography, as you state, but also because of job & family constraints, as in my experience), resulting in a wider pool of talent. Of course, this means also no, because there’s going to be a glut of librarians who won’t all be able to find jobs. It could be an opportunity for programs to raise admission standards, but I suspect they would be too sad at the loss of revenue, so they won’t.
Geographically, I won’t have any choice. I am currently doing my BS in Library Informatics at Northern Kentucky University. It’s an online program, but fortunately I live near enough to campus that I can take some of the electives on site as I much prefer that format. On the other hand, if it weren’t for the online programs, MLS would never be an option for me.
So much depends on the quality of the instruction and the format of the class no matter how it’s delivered. I have taken online classes with responsive professors who provided prompt and relevant feedback along with video or audio recordings of their bricks and mortar classes. At the other end of the spectrum are classes like one I am currently taking – no interaction with or feedback from the instructor at all, only reading and discussion board posts, leaving me wondering just what it is that I’m paying for. Poor technology is also another of my pet peeves regarding online classes – the flexibility of learning online is useless if I have to wait hours for a lecture to download even on DSL.
Would I hire someone with a degree from Laptop U? Don’t know – someone’s going to have to be willing to hire me before I’ll ever be in a position to hire someone else!
Like Tina, I recently completed my MLIS through Drexel’s online program. I had the option of moving to Seattle to attend UW’s program, or attend Emporia’s program based here in Portland. While dithering about applying to programs, my boss at the time (a law librarian) encouraged me to apply to Drexel. Attending a program different from the ones available nearby would be an added benefit on my resume, she advised. I was a bit apprehensive of a wholly online program, but the benefits quickly outweighed the negatives.
Hiring someone depends on getting as much of a big picture of the person as possible; the source of their degree doesn’t immediately translate into competence. Nor do I believe that online MLIS programs will result in a new librarian paradigm. Librarianship has been evolving into a more technically oriented profession anyway; the larger societal change toward greater technological influence seems to have more impact on our profession.
I’m not entirely sure whether classroom experiences are a major contributor for developing human relationship skills. What one does elsewhere has as much influence on a student as the time spent in the classroom; more so, depending on the quality of the instruction, curriculum format, and student engagement. In my online program, every student worked at least part time, and had also been working for years. Is it possible that online programs also appeal to people switching to a second or third career? If so, then developing human relationship skills in the classroom is rather a moot point.
Your question, “Will on-line graduates be more insistent in being given telecommuting opportunities on the job?” doesn’t strike me to be an issue, either. Telecommuting is so dependent on the job, and not every librarian who graduates from an online program is automatically technically proficient and possessed of programming skills – I love the online part of my job, but leave the technical aspects to others. While I’d love to telecommute, I can’t because I manage a physical collection – which, according to our researchers, isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, Kindle or no Kindle.
Finally, you asked whether I’d hire a children’s librarian who obtained their degree online. Isn’t the greater question, “Would you hire any librarian who got their degree from Laptop U?” We spend so much of our days online, doing everything from conducting bank transactions (you can complete nearly all of a mortgage process online), buying a car, making flight arrangements, and any number of other detailed procedures which traditionally have required much face-to-face interaction. Why should a graduate degree be different? My online degree is no different than if I’d been on Drexel’s campus, except that I’d know my classmates and professors in person.
A final note: one term into my graduate program at Drexel, I was hired at a corporate library to manage the collection, specifically because I was attending library school. The fact that my degree would be completed online had no bearing at all to the hiring committee; they were more interested in my overall abilities.
Waw, I love This Article
[...] of these discussions now that I need to reference them — but you can check out these blog posts, especially the comments, for some context. I think the general perception of online programs, [...]